Study: Obesity threatens health care system

Ignoramus21494 wrote:
This is completely bogus accounting. It takes into account medical
costs of complications of obesity, but does not account for the fact
that obese people die earlier and, therefore, do not draw as much from
the public during unproductive old age.

The higher medicare expense of $6,000 per year is a small sum,
considering that an old person could draw 2,000 per month in public
funds (social security, medicare, section 8 etc) and that obese people
die 6 years earlier, on average. That means 2,000 x 12 x 6 == $144,000
public savings. An obese person would need to live for 24 years after
retirement, a near impossibility, in order to expend his extra
medicare expenses that would be equal to the early death savings.

I would not be surprised to find out that obesity is in fact a net
financial benefit to the society, with the obese people, first,
participating in social security system on highly unfavorable terms,
and second, also suffering from obesity physically. I would not
interpret this situation as though obese people are somehow imposing a
cost to others or are getting a good deal.


That might be true. Do you think that the same applies also to smoking? Do
smoking people actually save public funds because they die several years
earlier than non-smokers?

Juhana

I have yet to run across a senior that draws $2,000 per month in public
funds.....

Glitter Girl
"Ignoramus21494" wrote in message
...
This is completely bogus accounting. It takes into account medical
costs of complications of obesity, but does not account for the fact
that obese people die earlier and, therefore, do not draw as much from
the public during unproductive old age.

The higher medicare expense of $6,000 per year is a small sum,
considering that an old person could draw 2,000 per month in public
funds (social security, medicare, section 8 etc) and that obese people
die 6 years earlier, on average. That means 2,000 x 12 x 6 == $144,000
public savings. An obese person would need to live for 24 years after
retirement, a near impossibility, in order to expend his extra
medicare expenses that would be equal to the early death savings.

I would not be surprised to find out that obesity is in fact a net
financial benefit to the society, with the obese people, first,
participating in social security system on highly unfavorable terms,
and second, also suffering from obesity physically. I would not
interpret this situation as though obese people are somehow imposing a
cost to others or are getting a good deal.

i

On 9 Dec 2004 04:27:41 -0000, Karina Kehl
wrote:
Study: Obesity threatens health care system

CHICAGO, Illinois (Reuters) -- Younger Americans who are overweight today
are threatening to hit the government's Medicare system with big health
care bills when they reach old age, according to a report published
Tuesday.

"With current trends of increasing overweight and obesity afflicting all
age groups, urgent preventive measures are required not only to lessen
the
burden of disease and disability associated with excess weight but also
to
contain future health care costs incurred by the aging population," the
study said.

The report from Feinberg School of Medicine at Northwestern University in
Chicago, found that that annual average Medicare charges for severely
obese
men were $6,192 more than for non-overweight men -- 84 percent higher.

For severely obese women, annual average charges were $5,618 more, or 88
percent higher than for women not overweight.

For men the total average annual Medicare charges for those not
overweight
were $7,205, for the overweight $8,390, for the obese $10,128 and for the
severely obese $13,674.

The total average annual charges for women in the same four categories
were, respectively, $6,224, $7,653, $9,612, and $12,342.

About 12 percent of U.S. adults aged 65 years and older are currently
considered to be obese, a figure likely to increase to 20 percent by
2050,
the study said. Obesity can lead to high blood pressure, diabetes,
coronary
and other health problems.

The report was published in this week's Journal of the American Medical
Association.

The authors said about 130 million U.S. adults are currently overweight
or
obese. The definition for being overweight is a body mass index of 25 to
29.9. Body mass index is a calculation based on height and weight.




--
223/172.3/180

"Ignoramus23449" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 14:40:11 +0200, Juhana Harju
wrote:
Ignoramus21494 wrote:
This is completely bogus accounting. It takes into account medical
costs of complications of obesity, but does not account for the fact
that obese people die earlier and, therefore, do not draw as much from
the public during unproductive old age.

The higher medicare expense of $6,000 per year is a small sum,
considering that an old person could draw 2,000 per month in public
funds (social security, medicare, section 8 etc) and that obese people
die 6 years earlier, on average. That means 2,000 x 12 x 6 == $144,000
public savings. An obese person would need to live for 24 years after
retirement, a near impossibility, in order to expend his extra
medicare expenses that would be equal to the early death savings.

I would not be surprised to find out that obesity is in fact a net
financial benefit to the society, with the obese people, first,
participating in social security system on highly unfavorable terms,
and second, also suffering from obesity physically. I would not
interpret this situation as though obese people are somehow imposing a
cost to others or are getting a good deal.


That might be true. Do you think that the same applies also to smoking?
Do
smoking people actually save public funds because they die several years
earlier than non-smokers?

As far as I know, it is correct and it does apply to smoking. Smoking
is harmful to smokers, but on the net-net basis, it does not represent
a net financial drain to the government.

Same goes for obesity. It is bad for obese people, and their grieving
relatives, but it is very unlikely to be a net cost to the government.

Besides, it is an open question whether obesity is a cause of death,
or perhaps the underlying metabolic problems like diabetes that cause
both obesity as well as heart disease, etc, are responsible. Perhaps
to a large extent, obesity is a symptom and not cause of those early
deaths.

We had a similar discussion at work a few years ago. Some people feel
quite strongly that smoking and obesity are serious drains on our health
care system. But smokers pay more taxes(75% of the cost of smokes), and die
sooner. Obese people have more medical problems than slim people when they
are both younger. But as everyone ages they eventually become sick, weaker,
and more of a drain on health care. Obese people and smokers would not
collect on their old age pension for as long as a healthy people. I think of
all the older people that I knew in my life time that have died and realize
that few of them drop dead right away or peacefully in their sleep. It's
usually months or years of suffering. And also, on the other hand, I have
known smokers and fat people that have died quickly. Just because someone
eats right and works out does not insure them of a disease free quiet death
in their old age. They may live longer, but ultimately die of similar
diseases in the end and increased costs to health care.
Tom
210/180/180

Spouting hateful absurdities in soc.support.fat-acceptance is much
easier than thinking clearly.

--
223/172.3/180

"Ignoramus23449" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 14:40:11 +0200, Juhana Harju
wrote:
Ignoramus21494 wrote:
This is completely bogus accounting. It takes into account medical
costs of complications of obesity, but does not account for the fact
that obese people die earlier and, therefore, do not draw as much from
the public during unproductive old age.

The higher medicare expense of $6,000 per year is a small sum,
considering that an old person could draw 2,000 per month in public
funds (social security, medicare, section 8 etc) and that obese people
die 6 years earlier, on average. That means 2,000 x 12 x 6 == $144,000
public savings. An obese person would need to live for 24 years after
retirement, a near impossibility, in order to expend his extra
medicare expenses that would be equal to the early death savings.

I would not be surprised to find out that obesity is in fact a net
financial benefit to the society, with the obese people, first,
participating in social security system on highly unfavorable terms,
and second, also suffering from obesity physically. I would not
interpret this situation as though obese people are somehow imposing a
cost to others or are getting a good deal.


That might be true. Do you think that the same applies also to smoking?
Do
smoking people actually save public funds because they die several years
earlier than non-smokers?

As far as I know, it is correct and it does apply to smoking. Smoking
is harmful to smokers, but on the net-net basis, it does not represent
a net financial drain to the government.

Same goes for obesity. It is bad for obese people, and their grieving
relatives, but it is very unlikely to be a net cost to the government.

Besides, it is an open question whether obesity is a cause of death,
or perhaps the underlying metabolic problems like diabetes that cause
both obesity as well as heart disease, etc, are responsible. Perhaps
to a large extent, obesity is a symptom and not cause of those early
deaths.

We had a similar discussion at work a few years ago. Some people feel
quite strongly that smoking and obesity are serious drains on our health
care system. But smokers pay more taxes(75% of the cost of smokes), and die
sooner. Obese people have more medical problems than slim people when they
are both younger. But as everyone ages they eventually become sick, weaker,
and more of a drain on health care. Obese people and smokers would not
collect on their old age pension for as long as a healthy people. I think of
all the older people that I knew in my life time that have died and realize
that few of them drop dead right away or peacefully in their sleep. It's
usually months or years of suffering. And also, on the other hand, I have
known smokers and fat people that have died quickly. Just because someone
eats right and works out does not insure them of a disease free quiet death
in their old age. They may live longer, but ultimately die of similar
diseases in the end and increased costs to health care.
Tom
210/180/180

Spouting hateful absurdities in soc.support.fat-acceptance is much
easier than thinking clearly.

--
223/172.3/180

Ignoramus23449 wrote:
On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 15:14:18 GMT, Tom wrote:

We had a similar discussion at work a few years ago. Some people
feel quite strongly that smoking and obesity are serious drains on
our health care system. But smokers pay more taxes(75% of the cost
of smokes), and die sooner. Obese people have more medical problems
than slim people when they are both younger. But as everyone ages
they eventually become sick, weaker, and more of a drain on health
care. Obese people and smokers would not collect on their old age
pension for as long as a healthy people.

I completely agree.

I think of all the older people that I knew in my life time that
have died and realize that few of them drop dead right away or
peacefully in their sleep. It's usually months or years of
suffering. And also, on the other hand, I have known smokers and fat
people that have died quickly. Just because someone eats right and
works out does not insure them of a disease free quiet death in
their old age. They may live longer, but ultimately die of similar
diseases in the end and increased costs to health care. Tom

Yep. One of the common causes of death in obese people is a heart
attack, which, if immediately fatal, is a rather cheap way to die.


However, obesity causes diabetes and a great deal of the costs of the health
care system goes to the treatment of diabetes and the diseases caused by it.
This is not to make people with diabetes guilty, but it is a fact.

--
Juhana

Juhana Harju wrote:
|| Ignoramus23449 wrote:
||| On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 15:14:18 GMT, Tom wrote:
||||
|||| We had a similar discussion at work a few years ago. Some
|||| people feel quite strongly that smoking and obesity are serious
|||| drains on
|||| our health care system. But smokers pay more taxes(75% of the cost
|||| of smokes), and die sooner. Obese people have more medical problems
|||| than slim people when they are both younger. But as everyone ages
|||| they eventually become sick, weaker, and more of a drain on health
|||| care. Obese people and smokers would not collect on their old age
|||| pension for as long as a healthy people.
|||
||| I completely agree.
|||
|||| I think of all the older people that I knew in my life time that
|||| have died and realize that few of them drop dead right away or
|||| peacefully in their sleep. It's usually months or years of
|||| suffering. And also, on the other hand, I have known smokers and
|||| fat people that have died quickly. Just because someone eats right
|||| and
|||| works out does not insure them of a disease free quiet death in
|||| their old age. They may live longer, but ultimately die of similar
|||| diseases in the end and increased costs to health care. Tom
|||
||| Yep. One of the common causes of death in obese people is a heart
||| attack, which, if immediately fatal, is a rather cheap way to die.
|||
||
|| However, obesity causes diabetes and a great deal of the costs of
|| the health care system goes to the treatment of diabetes and the
|| diseases caused by it. This is not to make people with diabetes
|| guilty, but it is a fact.

Some would argue strongly about whether obesity causes diabetes or the other
way around.

Juhana Harju wrote:
|| Ignoramus23449 wrote:
||| On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 15:14:18 GMT, Tom wrote:
||||
|||| We had a similar discussion at work a few years ago. Some
|||| people feel quite strongly that smoking and obesity are serious
|||| drains on
|||| our health care system. But smokers pay more taxes(75% of the cost
|||| of smokes), and die sooner. Obese people have more medical problems
|||| than slim people when they are both younger. But as everyone ages
|||| they eventually become sick, weaker, and more of a drain on health
|||| care. Obese people and smokers would not collect on their old age
|||| pension for as long as a healthy people.
|||
||| I completely agree.
|||
|||| I think of all the older people that I knew in my life time that
|||| have died and realize that few of them drop dead right away or
|||| peacefully in their sleep. It's usually months or years of
|||| suffering. And also, on the other hand, I have known smokers and
|||| fat people that have died quickly. Just because someone eats right
|||| and
|||| works out does not insure them of a disease free quiet death in
|||| their old age. They may live longer, but ultimately die of similar
|||| diseases in the end and increased costs to health care. Tom
|||
||| Yep. One of the common causes of death in obese people is a heart
||| attack, which, if immediately fatal, is a rather cheap way to die.
|||
||
|| However, obesity causes diabetes and a great deal of the costs of
|| the health care system goes to the treatment of diabetes and the
|| diseases caused by it. This is not to make people with diabetes
|| guilty, but it is a fact.

Some would argue strongly about whether obesity causes diabetes or the other
way around.

Roger Zoul wrote:
Juhana Harju wrote:

However, obesity causes diabetes and a great deal of the costs of
the health care system goes to the treatment of diabetes and the
diseases caused by it. This is not to make people with diabetes
guilty, but it is a fact.

Some would argue strongly about whether obesity causes diabetes or
the other way around.

Being overweight is likely to make you insulin resistant, which is a kind of
pre-diabetes state. But the failure of beta cells is a contributing factor
also, as far as I know.

--
Juhana

Roger Zoul wrote:
Juhana Harju wrote:

However, obesity causes diabetes and a great deal of the costs of
the health care system goes to the treatment of diabetes and the
diseases caused by it. This is not to make people with diabetes
guilty, but it is a fact.

Some would argue strongly about whether obesity causes diabetes or
the other way around.

Being overweight is likely to make you insulin resistant, which is a kind of
pre-diabetes state. But the failure of beta cells is a contributing factor
also, as far as I know.

--
Juhana

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004, Glitter Girl wrote:

I have yet to run across a senior that draws $2,000 per month in public
funds.....


I suppose that depends what you mean by public funds. But at the time of
his death, my father was getting social security payments of around
$1500/month. If I recall correctly, it would have been higher, but wasn't
because he was still working.

Martha


--
"ALPO is 99 cents a can. That's over SEVEN dog dollars!!"
Revek - ASDLC