Fake Protein Supplements?

wrote in message
oups.com...
Please name for me a whey protein that uses only brown sugar or even
regular sugar for sweetening and I'll happily endorse it.

The brown sugar I've seen is just white sugar + molasses. Is there something
else?

But I do support you in a lot of what you're saying. We just can't possibly
try to create a good diet by isolating compounds in powder form and putting
together a diet with them. It's like pretending we know all there is to know
about how the body processes food (I certainly don't, and I don't believe
even the best nutritionist out there does), and that we can do better than
nature. People make this mistake in all areas of science by becoming too
specialized in one subject and ignoring the context. But I do believe
there's value in whey and other supplements as long as they're only taken as
supplements in situations where it may be appropriate, making up only a
minor portion of our daily intake. There's just so many things in real food
that we're missing out on if we rely heavily on calorie-rich supplements. We
could certainly consume whey as a source of protein, but that's not
nutrition, not healthy, and someone consuming 1000 calories a day in whey is
missing out on the nutrition he'd be getting by eating real foods to make up
his daily protein intake.

The real problem, as I see it, is consumers buy lots and lots of whey and
take it like a magic formula that rationalizes an otherwise crappy diet.

David

--
Adamant Barbell
Unyielding steel, built for abuse
www.adamantbarbell.com

In article ,
"Dave" wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...
Please name for me a whey protein that uses only brown sugar or even
regular sugar for sweetening and I'll happily endorse it.

The brown sugar I've seen is just white sugar + molasses. Is there something
else?

Change that to raw or turbinado sugar and yes, there is a difference.
--
Peace, Om

Remove _ to validate e-mails.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson

On May 17, 9:57 am, (Will Brink) wrote:
In article .com,

wrote:
Let me try to go through this point by point with what I know or what
I think I know...

I generally define the best way of eating as to eat the foods with the
lowest profit margins and that spoil soon. These foods have more
nutrients per ounce.

Proft margin has zero to do with nutrient density nor does how fast the
food spoils.

Wow. So fresh foods are no different from canned, pulverized or frozen
foods? Or anything else done to it.


Whey protein is cheap as hell and the source of
it is from cows that aren't grass fed.

Some are some are not.

Which whey maker uses grass fed, pasture raised cows? I'd love to know
this.


Here is an article on vit A and absorption
of protein:http://www.westonaprice.org/men/vita...ybuilding.html

A worthless source as weston price is worthless info for non science types
who are fooled by their BS and agendas. The article is also worthless.


So these are worthless citations?
Livera, et al., "Regulation and Perturbation of Testicular Functions
by Vitamin A" (Review), Reproduction (2002) 124, 173-180
Nayyar, et. al., "Alterations in binding characteristics of peripheral
benzodiazepine receptors in testes by vitamin A deficiency in guinea
pigs," Mol Cell Biochem. 2000 Aug;211(1-2):47-50
Bishop, et. al., "The effect of nutritional factors on sex hormone
levels in male twins," Genet Epidemiol. 1988;5(1):43-59.
Zadik, et. al., "Vitamin A and iron supplementation is as efficient as
hormonal therapy in constitutionally delayed children," Clin
Endocrinol (Oxf). 2004 Jun; 60(6):682-7.
McCormick, et. al., "Chemoprevention of rat prostate carcinogenesis by
9-cis-retinoic acid," Cancer Res. 1999 Feb 1;59(3):521-4.
Furusho, et. al., "Tissue specific-distribution and metabolism of
vitamin A are affected by dietary protein levels in rats," Int J Vitam
Nutr Res. 1998;68(5):287-92
Narbonne, et. al., "Protein metabolism in vitamin A deficient rats.
II. Protein synthesis in striated muscle," Ann Nutr Aliment.
1978;32(1):59-75.
Stio, et. al., "Synergistic effect of vitamin D derivatives and
retinoids on C2C12 skeletal muscle cells," IUBMB Life. 2002 Mar;53(3):
175-81



The article which you wrote doesn't have any citations. Please provide
these and we can discuss further.

Formatting of the article is messed up for some reason. On another site:

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag97/nov-report97.html

Others can be seen he

Effects of one of the sub fractions found in whey not found in other proteins:

http://www.brinkzone.com/articledeta...catid=3&aid=99

Possible effects of whey on weight loss:

http://www.brinkzone.com/articledeta...catid=3&aid=11

Pretty much everything you need to know about whey:

http://www.brinkzone.com/articledeta...catid=3&aid=25

Those are just a sample BTW.

I agree that whey is fantastic and it is WHEY better in its original
form before it is pulverized and/or cooked.


Whey can be made at home far cheaper
than buying a powder. Don't know how? Get raw milk and make yogurt,
then drain the liquid. This would have to be the best whey ever!
Second best, use regular milk. Third best, buy yogurt.

You're ignorant of the topic.

I am ignorant on the topic of whey? Have you ever made your own whey?
If a cow is pasture fed, on pesticide free grass, and you milk it,
culture it to become yogurt,
drain the liquid whey out.... are you telling me that WPI or
hydrolyzed protein is healthier than this?
What about all of the other nutrients in this liquid that haven't even
been discovered yet? And that perhaps
make the whey work even better? Or whey maybe works better directly in
the yogurt? Or even better, perhaps it works
better in the raw milk?! Healthy whole foods are always better than
an isolated form stripped from their origin.

Vince definitely was a character. He knew a lot. Not all. And I agree
that he sure thought he knew it all.

I have no idea what you are talking about or who Vince is.

You don't know who Vince Gironda was? Have you studied the history of
bodybuilding and nutrition?
Your ignorance of Vince Gironda is revealing.

Not sure why you think the westonaprice folks are nuts. Please give me
an example as opposed to a general attack on them.

Their info is generally BS and that's easy enough to figure out by a
simple read of their material.

Still waiting for an example.
Have you read "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" by Dr. Price?
This book is so insightful that it would be an understatement to say
anything else.
This is the basis of the http://www.westonaprice.org folks.

Tom
http://www.itspuresoap.com

Here is the study I couldn't find regarding CLA and eating more
organic foods for anyone interested

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...ubmed_docsu m

Tom
http://www.itspuresoap.com


On May 17, 3:43 pm, wrote:
On May 17, 9:57 am, (Will Brink) wrote:

In article .com,

wrote:
Let me try to go through this point by point with what I know or what
I think I know...

I generally define the best way of eating as to eat the foods with the
lowest profit margins and that spoil soon. These foods have more
nutrients per ounce.

Proft margin has zero to do with nutrient density nor does how fast the
food spoils.

Wow. So fresh foods are no different from canned, pulverized or frozen
foods? Or anything else done to it.



Whey protein is cheap as hell and the source of
it is from cows that aren't grass fed.

Some are some are not.

Which whey maker uses grass fed, pasture raised cows? I'd love to know
this.

Here is an article on vit A and absorption
of protein:http://www.westonaprice.org/men/vita...ybuilding.html

A worthless source as weston price is worthless info for non science types
who are fooled by their BS and agendas. The article is also worthless.

So these are worthless citations?
Livera, et al., "Regulation and Perturbation of Testicular Functions
by Vitamin A" (Review), Reproduction (2002) 124, 173-180
Nayyar, et. al., "Alterations in binding characteristics of peripheral
benzodiazepine receptors in testes by vitamin A deficiency in guinea
pigs," Mol Cell Biochem. 2000 Aug;211(1-2):47-50
Bishop, et. al., "The effect of nutritional factors on sex hormone
levels in male twins," Genet Epidemiol. 1988;5(1):43-59.
Zadik, et. al., "Vitamin A and iron supplementation is as efficient as
hormonal therapy in constitutionally delayed children," Clin
Endocrinol (Oxf). 2004 Jun; 60(6):682-7.
McCormick, et. al., "Chemoprevention of rat prostate carcinogenesis by
9-cis-retinoic acid," Cancer Res. 1999 Feb 1;59(3):521-4.
Furusho, et. al., "Tissue specific-distribution and metabolism of
vitamin A are affected by dietary protein levels in rats," Int J Vitam
Nutr Res. 1998;68(5):287-92
Narbonne, et. al., "Protein metabolism in vitamin A deficient rats.
II. Protein synthesis in striated muscle," Ann Nutr Aliment.
1978;32(1):59-75.
Stio, et. al., "Synergistic effect of vitamin D derivatives and
retinoids on C2C12 skeletal muscle cells," IUBMB Life. 2002 Mar;53(3):
175-81





The article which you wrote doesn't have any citations. Please provide
these and we can discuss further.

Formatting of the article is messed up for some reason. On another site:

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag97/nov-report97.html

Others can be seen he

Effects of one of the sub fractions found in whey not found in other proteins:

http://www.brinkzone.com/articledeta...catid=3&aid=99

Possible effects of whey on weight loss:

http://www.brinkzone.com/articledeta...catid=3&aid=11

Pretty much everything you need to know about whey:

http://www.brinkzone.com/articledeta...catid=3&aid=25

Those are just a sample BTW.

I agree that whey is fantastic and it is WHEY better in its original
form before it is pulverized and/or cooked.



Whey can be made at home far cheaper
than buying a powder. Don't know how? Get raw milk and make yogurt,
then drain the liquid. This would have to be the best whey ever!
Second best, use regular milk. Third best, buy yogurt.

You're ignorant of the topic.

I am ignorant on the topic of whey? Have you ever made your own whey?
If a cow is pasture fed, on pesticide free grass, and you milk it,
culture it to become yogurt,
drain the liquid whey out.... are you telling me that WPI or
hydrolyzed protein is healthier than this?
What about all of the other nutrients in this liquid that haven't even
been discovered yet? And that perhaps
make the whey work even better? Or whey maybe works better directly in
the yogurt? Or even better, perhaps it works
better in the raw milk?! Healthy whole foods are always better than
an isolated form stripped from their origin.

Vince definitely was a character. He knew a lot. Not all. And I agree
that he sure thought he knew it all.

I have no idea what you are talking about or who Vince is.

You don't know who Vince Gironda was? Have you studied the history of
bodybuilding and nutrition?
Your ignorance of Vince Gironda is revealing.

Not sure why you think the westonaprice folks are nuts. Please give me
an example as opposed to a general attack on them.

Their info is generally BS and that's easy enough to figure out by a
simple read of their material.

Still waiting for an example.
Have you read "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" by Dr. Price?
This book is so insightful that it would be an understatement to say
anything else.
This is the basis of thehttp://www.westonaprice.orgfolks.

Tomhttp://www.itspuresoap.com

In article .com,
wrote:

On May 17, 9:57 am, (Will Brink) wrote:
In article .com,

wrote:
Let me try to go through this point by point with what I know or what
I think I know...

I generally define the best way of eating as to eat the foods with the
lowest profit margins and that spoil soon. These foods have more
nutrients per ounce.

Proft margin has zero to do with nutrient density nor does how fast the
food spoils.

Wow.

For you, I guess this basic info leads to a "wow" conclusion.

So fresh foods are no different from canned, pulverized or frozen
foods? Or anything else done to it.

For nutrient density, no. Do you even understand what nutrient density is?
It appears you don't.




Whey protein is cheap as hell and the source of
it is from cows that aren't grass fed.

Some are some are not.

Which whey maker uses grass fed, pasture raised cows? I'd love to know
this.

As you don't understand even basic concepts like nutrient density, I fail
to see how the info will do you any good.



Here is an article on vit A and absorption
of protein:http://www.westonaprice.org/men/vita...ybuilding.html

A worthless source as weston price is worthless info for non science types
who are fooled by their BS and agendas. The article is also worthless.


So these are worthless citations?

In the context of this thread and conversation,Yup.


I agree that whey is fantastic and it is WHEY better in its original
form before it is pulverized and/or cooked.

Again, you dont know the data or the science. All the studies cited in
those aticles are using concentrates or isolates processed.




You're ignorant of the topic.

I am ignorant on the topic of whey?

Yes, every comment you have made proves that.


All natural-Feel-good-how-you-make yogurt-goofyness snipped.

Now move along.

--
Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

"It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

In article .com,
wrote:

Here is the study I couldn't find regarding CLA and eating more
organic foods for anyone interested


Did anyone claim organic foods were bad in this thread or do you always
just throw out random stuff unrlated to the topic of the thread?


Here is an article on vit A and absorption

No, it is not. Your reading skills are worse than your science. Show me in
the article where it talks about ABSORPTION of vitamin A.


So these are worthless citations?

From the article:

"athletes and body builders may be able to achieve similar results from
their training by taking high-vitamin cod liver oil and eating foods rich
in vitamin A on a regular basis as others receive from the common practice
of supplementing with testosterone precursors."

That's very funny! Vitamin A is = to anabolic steroids.

Still waiting for an example.

I just gave you one. If they allow that type of BS to be published on
their site...they are well known for fabricating things and or simply
getting the science wrong to support their agenda's

--
Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

"It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

Okay so isolates or concentrates were used. Obviously the nutrient
density is higher. But then again you've probably never heard of the
brix of food either. Again, which whey makers use grass fed, pesticide
free, hormone free cows? I'd love to know this. Vitamin A deficiency
from eating low fat proteins is not a wise move for your health. Good
luck! I'm done.

Tom
http://www.itspuresoap.com

On May 17, 5:22 pm, (Will Brink) wrote:
In article .com,



wrote:
On May 17, 9:57 am, (Will Brink) wrote:
In article .com,

wrote:
Let me try to go through this point by point with what I know or what
I think I know...

I generally define the best way of eating as to eat the foods with the
lowest profit margins and that spoil soon. These foods have more
nutrients per ounce.

Proft margin has zero to do with nutrient density nor does how fast the
food spoils.

Wow.

For you, I guess this basic info leads to a "wow" conclusion.

So fresh foods are no different from canned, pulverized or frozen
foods? Or anything else done to it.

For nutrient density, no. Do you even understand what nutrient density is?
It appears you don't.



Whey protein is cheap as hell and the source of
it is from cows that aren't grass fed.

Some are some are not.

Which whey maker uses grass fed, pasture raised cows? I'd love to know
this.

As you don't understand even basic concepts like nutrient density, I fail
to see how the info will do you any good.



Here is an article on vit A and absorption
of protein:http://www.westonaprice.org/men/vita...ybuilding.html

A worthless source as weston price is worthless info for non science types
who are fooled by their BS and agendas. The article is also worthless.

So these are worthless citations?

In the context of this thread and conversation,Yup.

I agree that whey is fantastic and it is WHEY better in its original
form before it is pulverized and/or cooked.

Again, you dont know the data or the science. All the studies cited in
those aticles are using concentrates or isolates processed.



You're ignorant of the topic.

I am ignorant on the topic of whey?

Yes, every comment you have made proves that.

All natural-Feel-good-how-you-make yogurt-goofyness snipped.

Now move along.

--
Will @www.BrinkZone.com

"It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

wrote:

Healthy whole foods are always better than
an isolated form stripped from their origin.

Yep. There it is. The classic moronic statement of the natural foods
luddites.

For instance, you wouldn't want to do any evil "processing and
denaturing" with the tropical world's most prominent food starch
source: cassava. It would get rid of the yummy, natural cyanide!

People like you are a Darwin Award waiting to happen.

In article .com,
wrote:

Okay so isolates or concentrates were used. Obviously the nutrient
density is higher. But then again you've probably never heard of the
brix of food either. Again, which whey makers use grass fed, pesticide
free, hormone free cows?

All you need to know about hormones in whey:

http://www.brinkzone.com/articledeta...catid=3&aid=14

BTW, there is no such thing as a "hormone free cow"

I'd love to know this. Vitamin A deficiency
from eating low fat proteins is not a wise move for your health.

More BS.

Good
luck! I'm done.

Promise?

--
Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

"It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural

In article , JMW
wrote:

wrote:

Healthy whole foods are always better than
an isolated form stripped from their origin.

Yep. There it is. The classic moronic statement of the natural foods
luddites.

For instance, you wouldn't want to do any evil "processing and
denaturing" with the tropical world's most prominent food starch
source: cassava. It would get rid of the yummy, natural cyanide!

Uranium is natural also....

People like you are a Darwin Award waiting to happen.

We have pretty much stopped natural selection in humans which is why we
have ended up where we are today.

--
Will @ www.BrinkZone.com

"It twas ever thus! " - Mr Natural