If Excess Protein Turns into Fat...

"David Cohen" wrote in message
oups.com...
Bill Penrose wrote:

'Good' fats are usually not used for energy. They're used for
structure, cell membranes, etc. Bad fats aren't bad, either,
especially if you work very hard in a cold climate. Only fat can give
you enough energy. It's all in the amount you eat.

In the winter, polar bears hunting on the ice will eat only the
blubber of seals, leaving the meat and bones to the wolves who follow
the bears, and then what the wolves don't eat is taken by the foxes,
who have been following the wolves, who have been following the
bears.

It almost makes you want to break out into a song from "Lion King"

David



That is true, but we aren't Polar bears either! ;-)


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

wrote in message
oups.com...
"PUFA, omega 6 and omega 3 fatty acids, are essential for normal body
metabolism and brain function."

False, Ron. Did you not see my post of a couple of days ago. I
examined the original experiments, and it was vitamin B6 deficiency.
When they fed the rats B6 but no fat, the rats were fine. They made
Mead acid, and in other studies, actually lived longer than the rats
fed "essential fatty acids." If you don't believe me, you are free to
take me up on the experimental offer I've made to you time and time
again. Stop spreading these very dangerous myths - you might hurt
someone badly. And how can I see all kinds of benefits, and no
problems, after deciding to avoid dietary PUFA since 2001? Do you or
do you not understand what a direct refutation is in science, and what
role it plays in the scientific method?

My free site is at:

http://groups.msn.com/TheScientificDebateForum-

You can see relevant citations and quotations on the threads with
titles that are obviously on point (e.g., "Mead acid studies").



Wow! Yet another SPAMMING asshole who thinks he knows about diet. If I had
nickel for every idiot like this guy I have seen in Usenet, I could buy and
sell Bill Gates 50 times over. There is a reason why they are called
essential fatty acids. Your fake rats studies don't hold water with humans.


--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/

On Aug 26, 2:32 am, spodosaurus wrote:
Bill Penrose wrote:
No, the body can burn fat directly, but it needs some sugar to do
that. In other words, it can burn sugar only, and sugar plus fat, but
not fat only. The 'Atkins diet', where you limit sugars in the diet,
supposedly causes you to stop burning fat, too.

Incorrect: glucose can be created from fats using the gluconeogenesis
pathway and getting the energy for this pathway from the citric acid
cycle that the catabolism of fat feeds into.

Glucogenesis produces glucose from glycerol and proteins, not fatty
acids. Glycerol is only a small part of triglycerides.

--
Ron

How is it "spam?" I make no money from my site and have nothing to
sell. Would you like me to copy and paste all the evidence I have on
my site every time someone asks a relevant question? Perhaps if you
would remove your head from your hind quarters you would realize that
just because someone has a web site and references it does not mean
there is a "spam" issue involved. If you want to discuss the science,
then cite your evidence and let's talk science. This is supposed to
be a scientific newsgroup. There is no "opinion" in my post. The
experiments are part of the scientific literature, and nobody has ever
claimed that they were fraudulent or in any was suspect (some were
done at M.I.T.).

Ron Peterson wrote:
On Aug 26, 2:32 am, spodosaurus wrote:
Bill Penrose wrote:
No, the body can burn fat directly, but it needs some sugar to do
that. In other words, it can burn sugar only, and sugar plus fat, but
not fat only. The 'Atkins diet', where you limit sugars in the diet,
supposedly causes you to stop burning fat, too.

Incorrect: glucose can be created from fats using the gluconeogenesis
pathway and getting the energy for this pathway from the citric acid
cycle that the catabolism of fat feeds into.

Glucogenesis produces glucose from glycerol and proteins, not fatty
acids. Glycerol is only a small part of triglycerides.

--
Ron


No, that is incorrect. Gluconeogenesis pathway produces glucose from
pyruvate/oxaloacetate. Oxaloacetate can be taken right from the citric
acid cycle, regardless of its source molecule (in this example, fatty
acids). Glycerol is not needed, and nor are amino acids, although some
amino acids can be used to get the oxaloacetate.


Cheers,

Ari

--
spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply
Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow transplant. Please
volunteer to be a marrow donor and literally save someone's life:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/

"PUFAs are high in all the essential fatty acids..."

This statement just shows how incredibly, aggressively ignorant of the
subject you are - you don't even understand the terminology. In your
case, I advise you ingest large amounts of what you believe to be the
"essential fatty acids." Report back to us what happens about ten
years from now, if you last that long.

For those with an open mind, "saturated fat" is a phrase that lacks
scientific precision and is useless (in fact, it may be worse than
useless, to the extent that it misleads). Lard is considered a
"saturated fat" by most "experts," but is only about 40% saturated,
not much more saturated than chicken fat, for example. Coconut oil is
over 90% saturated. However, the actual saturated fatty acids are not
all the same, and can have different effects. Some SFAs are said to
raise cholesterol levels while at least one SFA is said to lower it.
Because CHD is now understood down to the molecular-level, this
information is no longer relevant. Oxidized LDL is to blame, and LDL
containing a lot of PUFAs are susceptible to oxidation. Therefore,
basic logic dictates that if you avoid dietary PUFAs and of course
dietary cholesterol that is largely oxidized (steamed salmon is
especially bad, for example), then there is no reason to fear
saturated fatty acids. Lard is unhealthy due to what is in it besides
the saturated fatty acids, not because of the saturated fatty acids.
Once you understand this, you can examine the actual findings of
various studies and it will make sense to you. If something does not
make sense, you can ask me questions on my free site. I do not charge
any fees, and make absolutely no money, directly or indirectly, by
doing this. I am "giving" my time, trying to help people. The site
is sponsored by Microsoft, which allows me to do this for free (they
put small banner ads up on top of the page, and it has nothing to do
with me).

If Ron is a medical doctor, I fear for the well being of his patients.

On Aug 25, 11:52 pm, wrote:
"PUFA, omega 6 and omega 3 fatty acids, are essential for normal body
metabolism and brain function."

False, Ron.

Ron's statement simply reflects the current mainstream understanding.

If a better understanding replaces that one, it's unlikely that this
will come from some lame Internet crackpots.

And how can I see all kinds of benefits, and no
problems, after deciding to avoid dietary PUFA since 2001?

You might have /decided/ to do that, but it's next to impossible.
You'd have to avoid fruits, vegetables, grains, meats, dairy, etc.
Basically all food.

This causes me to wonder, what exactly do you eat? Ah, your website
has the answer to that:

``Aside from fresh fruit, especially bananas (though I'm not sure if
bananas are technicaly a "fruit"), I eat a lot of cheese along with
ricotta, which can be the same as cheese, or be made with whey, which
will change the amino acid profile a litte. I also eat other dairy,
such as butter, sour cream, and yogurt, but never with additives such
as carrageenan.'' [... etc]

Doh, dairy contains PUFA. It's a source of omega-3 and omega-6 EFA's,
as are other things in your diet.

On Aug 26, 6:12 pm, "Hard Bop Drums" wrote:
"Ron Peterson" wrote in message

PUFA, mega 6 and omega 3 fatty acids, are essential for normal body
metabolism and brain function.

Saturated fats don't have any well known benefit to the human diet,
and are suspected of contributing to cardiovascular disease and type
II diabetes.

You need to get your head out of your ass and read a bit more. Yes, PUFAs
are high in all the essential fatty acids, but there are MANY types of
saturated fats and not all lead to any cardiovascular problems. I'll bet you
an arm and a leg that you are a fat ass.

You don't have it quite right. Oils that are high in PUFA, don't
necessarily have all the essential fatty acids, particularly those
common in fish oil (EPA & DHA).

The short chained saturated fatty acids may be comparatively safe, but
fats that are highly saturated aren't dominated by SCFA.

I try to be very careful about my sources of information being
skeptical of vegan and "natural/organic" web sites and publications.

--
Ron

On Aug 25, 11:44 pm, "Cubit" wrote:
Um, uh.

Excess protein becomes glucose. The liver does it.

I've read that excess protein becomes fat. But even if it does become
glucose, well, if it's excess glucose it still becomes fat!

Sugar is not the only form of energy for the body. Ketones are a big one,
if you don't guzzle carbs. Alcohol, I think, can too.

Perhaps, I don't know; the point of my question isn't whether sugar is
the only form of energy for the body (though if what you say is true I
thank you for the edification), but how come fat cannot be converted
back to protein the way fat can be converted back to sugar.

The body does not need to use stored fats, if the diet has too many
calories.

Indeed.

There are entire books saying that each kind of fat is the best fat, and all
the books contradict each other. Most agree that trans fats are bad.

Yeah, it's a jungle out there!

Personally, I like saturated fats as found in Coconuts, and I suspect there
is merit to the form of Omega 6 called CLA. Without dietary fat, the body
makes its own fats. I have wondered if dietary fat is healthier than the
fat the body can make.

Well, I'm wondering why the advice to ingest dietary fat, even though
the body already has fat.