Why Bad Diets Are Bad?

On 24/08/2011 10:29 PM, wrote:
On Aug 23, 11:47 pm, wrote:


There you go being arcane again instead of answering
the simple question I asked above. The "we" clearly
is all the rest of us who have participated in the thread
the last few days.

(I really don't think that you grasp the true meaning of the word
"arcane". I think that you confuse it with obtuse. I can sometimes be
deliberately obtuse - if I choose to wind someone up. Arcane means that
you lack the ability to understand me, that you are missing some
knowledge or experience that is required to understand me.)

We who have called you out on
all your BS. That group of we is 7 of us at last count,
most of whom have been here for years and know LC.

You don't seem to know LC as well as you think that you do. You are
certainly Atkins devotees - as I once was when I first posted in this
group. I learned from my mistake and moved on from there. I then found
things that worked without the limitations inherent in the Atkins regimen.

I'd say we are devotees of truth and won't tolerate liars who dredge
up anti-LC crap.

Liars?

Be real. I am not anti LC, I live LC, what I am is anti Atkins, and as
has been pointed out numerous times - this is NOT an Atkins group, it is
an LC group.

The same LC crap that has been used over and
over to attack virtually every LC diet, be it Atkins or Dukan. The
very
crap you put forth. That Atkins will damage your kidneys. That
Atkins was obese when he fell and hit his head, ending his life.

I was not the first in this thread to make mention of Atkins death and
body weight. But he was fat when he died - being in a coma does not
create that sort of weight gain. Plus the controversy about his weight
gain started shortly before he was taken to hospital when a photograph
showing him to be clearly overweight was taken by paparazzi. The autopsy
weight was just icing on the cake.

That Atkins Nutritionals is out of business.

Tell it to all the international franchisees who lost out in 2005.

That Atkins will worsen
your blood lipids.... Doug quickly identified you as a clown
when you first brought up the crap about kidney damage. It's
about a good a litmus test as one can find to spot an anti-
LC troll.

Hey, I didn't invent it, Atkin's own peers are the ones who made a point
of it. Doctors, Endocrinologists who specialise in such areas.



We who agree you don't have a clue about what you
are talking about. Must be getting kind of lonely for
you about now. The question goes directly to the core
of the issue and yet you refuse to give an answer.

You haven't asked a question that had not already been answered.


And one more evasion of the question, which is to explain
what makes Atkins dangerous and unhealthy, while Dukan
is good.

I responded to it quite clearly.



And while you're at it, now would be a good time
to correct all the falsehoods you put forward as
fact. You claimed that when you were wrong
you did so. Here is a partial list. I'm sure others
can add to it:

The Atkins Nutritional business no longer exists

It doesn't in this country or the other countries that I regularly spend
time in.

Are you stupid? Whether a product exists in some countries
or not has no bearing on whether the company exists. Following
that logic, Peugeot is no longer in business because their cars
are not sold in the USA.

Atkins International filed for bankruptcy protection and ceased its
international trade. The fact that it later continued a limited degree
of trade in the US doesn't negate the fact that it is no longer trading
internationally. Peugeot didn't file for protection, they just decided
that the US market wasn't worth pursuing.



I have seen no health food stores in France, Sweden, the UK,
Australia, or New Zealand who carry their products - not since the mid
00's. If it exists then it is far more limited in scope - it is no
longer international.

You are an unbelievable ignoramus. IF IT EXISTS? You made a
false claim that is libelous.
I even gave you the link to Atkins
Nutritional that shows they exist.

Libellous? It is fact. The original Atkins no longer exists. It went
bankrupt, stopped servicing its franchisees, came out of bankruptcy in
2006 with the aid of Parthenon/Goldman Sachs and was eventually sold to
Roark who is currently trading with the Atkins name. Roark bought it
from North Castle who had bought it from Parthenon/Goldman Sachs. It now
has a new marketing agenda and a new marketing demographic compared to
the original Atkins Nutritionals. It is not the same company.



You do know how the internet works, do you not?

Sure. It is all wires and pulleys. (...and a few mirrors.)

Here's another clue too. All along many of us have
ordered LC products
of one kind or another from online suppliers because we could
not find them locally. I guess that's expecting too much from
the French in 2011.

Buying food products internationally? Yes, too much.


It was "officially" shut down several years ago.
If it rose Phoenix-like from the ashes, then it is now hovering pretty
close to the ground.

Another libelous lie. Have you no shame in continuing
to make an ass of yourself? Kindly provide us with a
link that says Atkins Nutritional was officially shut down
several years ago.

I have provided you with details of the several sales of what was
originally the Atkins Nutritional group. It isn't hard to verify, but I
am not about to do it for you.


Like everything else you
claim, no link will be forthcoming. Perhaps being an
ignoramus, you've confused bankruptcy
with shutting down and going out of business.





Atkins Nutritional products are no longer available.

See above.



Atkins Nutritionals stated that the Atkins diet
had failed and was over.

They did - in a statement to the courts when filing for protection
against their creditors. They owed a lot of money and had near zero
income. It was widely discussed in various forms of health media at the
time.



Then it should be easy for you to back that up with a
link, troll. As usual, no such link will be forthcoming.


I never provide links. There is little point, if you were prepared to
accept the information in such links then you would have found them
yourself.




Genetics plays no role in obesity.

Usually not,

That's a shift. Maybe there is hope for you yet.

No shift at all. At least read exactly what was written before refuting it.


though a great many fat people claim that it does. You
can't be fat without overeating, yet many claim to eat like sparrows or
something similar. I have had a great many people tell me over several
decades that they eat less than I do. Sure, when eating a meal at the
same table they might make a point of doing that, but it is IMPOSSIBLE
to gain and maintain more weight than another person without consuming
or failing to burn more calories.

But then again, I think there is no hope. It's quite incredible.
I can see why you think everyone else is lying though. It's
because you're such prolific liar yourself. Why, in this thread
you even proudly told us how you plan on cheating on your
wife again when you come to the USA.

No I didn't, once again you don't read what was written, you just put
your own negative twist on it. I have a lovely, intelligent, supportive
and very attractive wife. Why would I want to cheat? It is however
flattering to the ego to be so consistently chased by American women. It
is the being chased that annoys my wife. They sometimes do it in front
of her.



How many fat people walked out of
concentration camps? If it was truly possible for some people to be fat
on a calorie restricted diet, at least some of those prisoners would
have been fat. My in-laws spent several years in one and commented on
how many of those who had been fat rapidly became as gaunt as everyone
else. I guess the fat person with the bird-like appetite is a myth?

You can't possibly be this stupid and still be alive.

You are correct for once. I am alive, so I can't be stupid.

You've taken a unique situation where people were
forced into eating virtually nothing. Of course if you
put people in a cage and only give them 200 calories
a day, they will starve to death. That has no
appicability to the real world, where people are
surrounded by food. You make the arrogant assumption
that all people have the same metabolisms, the
same appetites, the same reaction to high carb
foods. They do not.

No, you made that assumption, not me. You make lots of assumptions.
Metabolism varies with age, lifestyle, general health.




The Atkins diet will damage your kidneys,
while Dukan is safe and effective.

No overweight person has normal kidney function.

No they don't, have a chat to an Endocrinologist or a Cardiologist.
Anyone who is long-term fat or obese has impaired liver, kidney and
heart function. It is listed as one of the risk factors for obesity.



No, it's not up to any of us to have a chat. It's up to you
to provide a link to a credible reference. I've provided many
in this thread. You, not a one.

Why would I provide a link? If you really wanted to learn you would do
your own research. Among the myriad of Atkins detractors within the
medical profession there has been a lot of supporting data made public.
If you wouldn't believe those Doctors and their research, I doubt you
would fare better with links that support the same conclusion.

You are like a child - "prove it or it is not true". In an adult world
that does not work - there is proof there if you want to find it. You
clearly don't want to see Atkins in the light thrown upon him by his
medical peers.



I will answer or elucidate on things that I have said. You are not
asking me about things that I have said, you are putting your words in
my mouth. If you cannot read and comprehend clearly, then there is
little point in responding as you will not comprehend the response.

Look very carefully at what I have actually said and stop replying to
what you think that I might have said, or to what others who fail to
read and comprehend think that I might have said. Ok? I am a very exact
person, you seem to be very sloppy and haphazard in your approach to
discussion.- Hide quoted text -

It is precisely what you said that we'd all like an answer to.
Since you seem to have forgotten or wish to forget it, let
me help you out. Here is what you said that started this:

"I like a low carb (not ludicrously unhealthy like Atkins) diet"


" I developed a diet that has kept me fit for decades, and
recently I have seen that it is very similar to the much vaunted Dr
Dukan's
diet."

It is very similar in a number of areas. It is not as severe nor is the
initial stage as long as the initial stages of many other low carb diets
where nearly all carbs, even those in fresh produce are banned.

Another example of ignorance. Atkins does not ban fresh produce,
even during induction.

He does if the carb count exceeds his recommendations - which it will.
You are trying to have your cake and eat it.

Yet you claim ATkins is unhealthy, while
Dukan is good. Dukan does ban vegetables during the attack
phase. What;s up with that?

I made no such claim.



You went on to do everything you could to bash Atkins,
while being very postitive towards Dukan.

No, I was not being positive toward Dukan, I was being "ACCURATE" about
some misleading claims about Dukan.


BS.

If you regard being accurate and truthful as BS it might go some way
toward explaining some of your attitudes.


After my experience with Atkins I
would not regard any diet that has a high carb restriction in a positive
light.

Strange then that you've spoken so favorably about Dukan
and only now bring up this point.

No, all I have done is correct misinformation. I noted quite clearly
that I have not used his diet, and I also noted that his ongoing phase
has strong similarities to mine.


And what exactly is the
difference between "high carb restricition" and "low carb"?
Sounds like more BS word games.

Would you like to borrow a dictionary? I can't imagine anyone over the
age of eight or nine years of age who would have difficulty
understanding that.


Atkins is the only one I tried, and in just a few months I lost a
massive amount of weight - from a starting BMI that was medium to low. I
lost a lot of muscle mass - even though during the process I worked out
daily. I lost strength and endurance. I don't like any highly
restrictive, ketosis inducing diet, but I do like eating low carb.
Although Dukan is not as intense in effect or duration as Atkins,

Not as intense? Why no. Dukan just has you on an almost pure protein
diet for up to 7 days.

We are getting better. Up to seven days is not ten days. What he
actually recommends is two or three days, but more if absolutely
necessary. You avoid mentioning that.

No vegetables. You're in ketosis. But
Dukan is good, Atkins bad, right?

Atkins is crap, but I have not said at any time that Dukan is good, just
that it is not as bad as Atkins.


We're still waiting for the answer to the direct question:

Your question asks me to clarify something that I have not said - other
than in your imagination.

On Aug 24, 11:32*am, Who_me? wrote:

Be real. I am not anti LC, I live LC, what I am is anti Atkins, and as
has been pointed out numerous times - this is NOT an Atkins group, it is
an LC group.

Yes, it's a LC group. A group where not one person
has agreed with you.
It's obvious to every person who has participated in this
thread that you are either an ignoramus who knows very
little about LC, including Atkins and Dukan, or else you
are just an anti-LC troll. There have been at least 7 of
us in this thread, most long time participants and not
a single one has defended your nonsense.

You refuse to give an answer to the simple question
I have asked for the past several posts, which is
what makes Atkins unsafe and unhealthy, while
Dukan is good.

I'll just end my participation in this thread by listing many
of the lies and contradictions you've given us, not a
single one of which has been backed up with any
reference:

Atkins is ludicrously unhealthy.

Atkins will cause kidney damage.

Atkins has not been shown to improve blood
lipids and blood pressure.

No overweight person has normal kidney function.

Atkins was obese shortly before he slipped, fell and
went into a comma.

A patient with failing organs cannot gain weight
over a 2 week period prior to death.

Genetics do not play a role in obesity

Atkins Nutritional went out of business

Atkins Nutritional stated that the Atkins diet had failed

Atkins products are no longer available

Reduced appetite on LC isn't a good thing or
a key benefit because you should just tough it
out and control your hunger. If you can't it's
just a personal failing as a weak person.

A diet has to be suitable for an endurance
athlete or it's not sound for the general
public.


Then let's look back at some of the amazing
contradictions:

"There are no such things as bad diets, there are only bad dieters. "

Followed by "Atkins is ludicrously unhealthy" and
post after post slamming Atkins.

Slamming Atkins at every turn, citing for proof
that it's bad the condemnation ATkins has received
from mainstream "experts". And at the same
time ignoring that Dukan has received exactly
the same criticisms, for the same reasons.

Telling us Dukan is an example of a good diet and
similar to what you follow. With no answer to the
question repeatedly asked as to what makes one
of the two very similar diets unsafe, kidney damaging,
while the other is OK.

As for me, I'm satisifed that I've helped expose
you for everyone here to see. Not a single person in
this LC group has given any support for your
nonsense. And when asked to back up any of
your outrageous claims the answers given:


"Why would I provide a link? If you really wanted to learn you would
do
your own research. "

" You are like a child - "prove it or it is not true".



I'll keep the above handy for future re-posing
in case you decide to come back and post
more rubbish to try to fool some newbies.
For now, I'm done with you troll.

On 26/08/2011 4:39 PM, wrote:
On Aug 24, 11:32 am, wrote:

Be real. I am not anti LC, I live LC, what I am is anti Atkins, and as
has been pointed out numerous times - this is NOT an Atkins group, it is
an LC group.

Yes, it's a LC group. A group where not one person
has agreed with you.
It's obvious to every person who has participated in this
thread that you are either an ignoramus who knows very
little about LC, including Atkins and Dukan, or else you
are just an anti-LC troll.

What is obvious is that there is a strong pro Atkins core among this
group who regard LC as purely Atkins, a core with a completely closed mind.

There have been at least 7 of
us in this thread, most long time participants and not
a single one has defended your nonsense.

I really am heartbroken. I am so sad that I think I might snort some sugar.


You refuse to give an answer to the simple question
I have asked for the past several posts, which is
what makes Atkins unsafe and unhealthy, while
Dukan is good.

I have answered it quite clearly. You, as I said, have a closed mind, so
much so that you cannot see any response that doesn't agree with your
own expectations.

Once again, I HAVE NOT SAID AT ANY STAGE THAT DUKAN IS AN IDEAL DIET. I
CERTAINLY DON'T THINK THAT IT IS "GOOD". Does the "all caps" help you
concentrate?

All I say is that it is not as bad as Atkins, that it is somewhat better
in that it isn't as severe. You might regard it as
"Atkins Plus" or Atkins V. 2. (Even though it did not follow on from
Atkins, it arrived in the English speaking world after Atkins.)

You are laughable, both in your lack of knowledge about current health
research, your devotion to regimen created by a Doctor who was ridiculed
by his own peers - men with far better credentials than his.

Dukan also lacks the support of many of his peers - and with good
reason. Low carb eating does not require low carb extremism, it just
requires removal of superfluous carbs, usually highly processed carbs
from the diet. I have eaten low carb for a couple of decades and am
extremely fit, healthy and enjoy a good food whenever I please. I have a
body fat ratio under seven percent and more energy/endurance than men
who are twenty years younger than I. I have a good appetite, and I
appreciate it. I do not want to suppress my appetite in any way - it
would take a lot of the pleasure out of life. Low carb works and works
well, but it doesn't start and end with Atkins (Or Dukan.)

On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 17:19:14 +1000, Who_me?
wrote:

[...]
I have eaten low carb for a couple of decades and am
extremely fit, healthy and enjoy a good food whenever I please.

Then why all the bull****??? You're admitting that it works, that
it's healthy, that you eat low carb yourself, and that it allows you
to eat "good food". And yet you want to whine about people who are
essentially making those same points. What the hell is wrong with you?

Answer: You're just a stupid ****ing troll.

--
Dogman

In article ,
Dogman wrote:

On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 17:19:14 +1000, Who_me?
wrote:

[...]
I have eaten low carb for a couple of decades and am
extremely fit, healthy and enjoy a good food whenever I please.

Then why all the bull****??? You're admitting that it works, that
it's healthy, that you eat low carb yourself, and that it allows you
to eat "good food". And yet you want to whine about people who are
essentially making those same points. What the hell is wrong with you?

Answer: You're just a stupid ****ing troll.

Scat talk comes from limited vocabularies. The educated talk to a
garbage men like a garbage man, and to a judge, like a judge. Even
readers who may agree with you, may be turned-off (repulsed) by your
dependence on the vulgate. You might be happier in another group that
features flame wars.
--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would have cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And it's not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. That's hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they don't get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis

On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 12:01:18 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article ,
Dogman wrote:

On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 17:19:14 +1000, Who_me?
wrote:

[...]
I have eaten low carb for a couple of decades and am
extremely fit, healthy and enjoy a good food whenever I please.

Then why all the bull****??? You're admitting that it works, that
it's healthy, that you eat low carb yourself, and that it allows you
to eat "good food". And yet you want to whine about people who are
essentially making those same points. What the hell is wrong with you?

Answer: You're just a stupid ****ing troll.

Scat talk comes from limited vocabularies.

Go **** yourself, asshole.

The educated talk to a
garbage men like a garbage man, and to a judge, like a judge. Even
readers who may agree with you, may be turned-off (repulsed) by your
dependence on the vulgate. You might be happier in another group that
features flame wars.

Oooh, I wouldn't want to turn anyone off!

Freakin' troll.

--
Dogman

In article ,
Dogman wrote:

On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 12:01:18 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article ,
Dogman wrote:

On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 17:19:14 +1000, Who_me?
wrote:

[...]
I have eaten low carb for a couple of decades and am
extremely fit, healthy and enjoy a good food whenever I please.

Then why all the bull****??? You're admitting that it works, that
it's healthy, that you eat low carb yourself, and that it allows you
to eat "good food". And yet you want to whine about people who are
essentially making those same points. What the hell is wrong with you?

Answer: You're just a stupid ****ing troll.

Scat talk comes from limited vocabularies.

Go **** yourself, asshole.

The educated talk to a
garbage men like a garbage man, and to a judge, like a judge. Even
readers who may agree with you, may be turned-off (repulsed) by your
dependence on the vulgate. You might be happier in another group that
features flame wars.

Oooh, I wouldn't want to turn anyone off!

Freakin' troll.

QED ;O)
--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would have cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And it's not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. That's hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they don't get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis

On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 13:44:42 -0700, Billy
wrote:

In article ,
Dogman wrote:

On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 12:01:18 -0700, Billy
wrote:

QED ;O)

Asshole.

--
Dogman

On 28/08/2011 4:20 AM, Dogman wrote:
On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 17:19:14 +1000,
wrote:

[...]
I have eaten low carb for a couple of decades and am
extremely fit, healthy and enjoy a good food whenever I please.

Then why all the bull****??? You're admitting that it works, that
it's healthy, that you eat low carb yourself, and that it allows you
to eat "good food". And yet you want to whine about people who are
essentially making those same points. What the hell is wrong with you?

Answer: You're just a stupid ****ing troll.



You aren't very bright - are you?

On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 10:47:34 +1000, Who_me?
wrote:

On 28/08/2011 4:20 AM, Dogman wrote:
On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 17:19:14 +1000,
wrote:

[...]
I have eaten low carb for a couple of decades and am
extremely fit, healthy and enjoy a good food whenever I please.

Then why all the bull****??? You're admitting that it works, that
it's healthy, that you eat low carb yourself, and that it allows you
to eat "good food". And yet you want to whine about people who are
essentially making those same points. What the hell is wrong with you?

Answer: You're just a stupid ****ing troll.

You aren't very bright - are you?

I'm smart enough to know a stupid ****ing troll when I see one.

QED.

--
Dogman