Very discouraged; please help

"Edna Pearl" wrote in message
...
Well Jesus Christ, that's real encouraging. I don't think I've ever
received a message that unpleasant and discouraging in a support group
from anybody -- except of course trolls.

Fortunately, the message is so totally loaded with fallacies I can't take
it very seriously. It focusses entirely on calorie-counting while failing
to point out a single solitary thing I might change except suggesting I
count calories.

No, that is not true. I said you need to find out what your current caloric
intake is so you can figure out what you are maintaining at, because
obviously you are maintaining, which means you do not have a caloric
deficit.

I also said you need to get your heart rate up to burn more calories.
Lifting weight doesn't do that and neither does yoga type stretching.

I also suggested starting with a 30 minute walk every day.

So as far as not pointing out "a single solitary thing I might change",
maybe you need to reread my post.

Plenty of people, in fact, MOST people lose weight without
counting calories. Including people you purport to admire, like Krista,
who knows considerably more about fitness and nutrition than you do.

I do admire Krista. She has a tremendous amount of info on her website.
However, ymmv. If Krista's information is working out for you, then by all
means, keep doing what you are doing.

Trying to
find a "baseline" and then work around it is voodoo dieting that fails to
take account of how much a person's bodily processes and metabolism
changes -- it's a waste of time unless the person takes some motivation
from the counting process itself, and I don't.

If you don't know what your average calorie intake is, how can you know what
you need to change?

Furthermore, my reference to
"weather permitting" simply means, for example, that I don't swim outdoors
in winter (we just had an entire thread here about people who don't
bicycle in cold weather, which, in fact, I DO) -- and your assumption that
it means something else says a lot more about you than it does me.

NO, what you said was "I kayak, bicycle, hike, and swim when weather and my
energy evels permit". YOu can hike and bicycle in almost any weather, so
your blanket statement sounds more like a copout than anything.

Oh, and thanks
for telling me I need to stop feeling sorry for myself about my mom dying.
Aren't you a special person.

YOu know, I was not referring to your mother dying. I am sorry for your
loss, but I am referring to your "poor me" attitude about weight loss - you
have a plethora of reasons (excuses) why you are fat, and why you cannot
lose weight. There are many people here with super busy lifestyles, health
problems, etc, that have managed to lose plenty of weight.

I could go on and on, but **** that, I have a life. If nobody in this ng
can come up with anything better than that, I guess I know all I need to
know about this "support group."

I guess Edna what you really need right now is a hug. Well, here you go
HUGS. I guess you didn't come here for honest opinions and advice,
but for atta boys and warm fuzzy encouragement. Sorry, I don't do that.
But maybe someone else here will.


Oh, and Betsy, **** you. "You might not like hearing that," but it's
considerably nicer than and just as productive as what you've said to me.
How's this for advice: You need learn at least learn some manners, if you
can't manage to grow any compassion.

Manners? I guess I could take some lessons from you, huh?



ep

"determined" wrote in message
...

"Edna Pearl" wrote in message
...
Can you help?

My progress just feels too slow, and I am discouraged.

Number one, I don't weigh myself, and I'm not going to. I don't count
calories, and I'm not going to. I'm 49yo, and I've been through that
****,
and it wasn't productive when I was younger, and it's not going to be
productive now that I'm older, perimenopausal, with all sorts of
orthopedic
problems. I don't count things in any aspect of my life.

I'm 5'4", American , I have weighed in the 130s most of my life, size
8-10.
I topped out around 230, size 22, while I was ill and my mother was
dying
last year. I weigh around 200 right now and am a size 16-18. I went
through a couple of kinds of hell last year. When my mother finally
died in
March and I quit drinking my way through my pain in May, the first 30
pounds
dropped off immediately. (I know this because I was going to the doctor
and
hospital frequently and was weighed there. Again, I don't weigh
myself.)

I write for a living and have an sedentary, academic, artistic
lifestyle,
except for the fact that I ride my bike to do my errands a couple of
times a
week, and I have large gardens (flower and vegetable) that my SO
maintains
and that I help in and walk around in every day. Add to that, I try to
lift
a couple of times a week (heavy, complex). I kayak, bicycle, hike, and
swim
when weather and my energy levels permit -- so I do one of these about
once
a week. I start my days with stretching, including yoga postures.

I sleep 10-12 hours per day. Weird, I know, but I've always needed a
lot of
sleep to function at my best. I believe I have a metabolism that is
toward
the slow end of the spectrum.

I also have some physical injuries (atrophied right rhomboid, chronic
plantar fasciitis (sp?) in left foot, chronic subluxation of left hip,
and,
at the moment, tendonitis in my left shoulder and elbow that has been
there
for MONTHS and just WON'T get better). I am in fairly constant pain,
which interrupts my sleep.

Okay, so I quit drinking in May and started my current way of eating in
mid-October. I keep a checklist of food portions on my fridge and check
off
what I eat, as follows:

2-3 dairy
3-4 fruit
4 veggies
6 meat/protein
8 whole grains/carbs

The portions are as follows:

Dairy: a cup of milk or yogurt, or 1-1/2 ounces of nonfat or lowfat
cheese
Fruit: a medium apple, banana, or orange; 1/2 cup of chopped cooked or
canned fruit; or 3/4 cup of fruit juice
Vegetables: a cup of raw, leafy vegetables; 1/2 cup of other vegetables
(cooked or chopped raw); or 3/4 cup of vegetable juice
Meat/protein: one ounce cooked lean meat, poultry, or fish; one egg; 1/2
cup
of cooked legumes; three ounces of tofu; or two tablespoons of peanut
butter
Grains/carbs: one-half bagel, one slice of bread, 3/4 cup of
ready-to-eat
cereal, 1/2 cup of cooked cereal or pasta, or 3 cups of popcorn

I add flax seed oil to my diet and take calcium and a good multivitamin
daily. I take extra iron when I have a big blood loss, which
occasionally happens during this phase of the Joys Of Middle-Aged
Womanhood.

I have adhered to this WOE pretty closely since mid-October. My butt
shrank a little, immediately. My waist has not budged. Not BUDGED. My
next goal is to get into a pair of size 14 technical pants I have
hanging in my closet, and I am NO CLOSER than I was at the end of
October.

Before I quit drinking, started watching my diet, and developed a better
exercise routine, I was bedridden for months at a time, slept even more
than I do now, drank heavily, ate whatever the hell I wanted (including
fast food, restaurant portions four times a decent portion size and
swimming in butter, cookie binges, whatever). It seems to me that I
should be seeing more results than I am. I'm still tired and fat, and I
still have low energy.

Are my expectations unrealistic? Is my thinking wrong? How can I see
results?

ep

Are your expectations unrealistic? Maybe. You want something that for
most of us requires sacrifice, hard work, and diligence. You don't seem
willing to do what it will take to reach the goal you want.

Is your thinking wrong? That is very subjective, but imo, yes. You have
a very close minded attitude towards counting calories. You seem to be
unwilling to change, and ****ed off that you can't lose weight with your
current WOL. Change happens when we become willing to take the necessary
steps to make it happen. The question is, how bad do you want it?

How can you see results? Stop feeling sorry for yourself and get with
the program! You need to figure out where you stand with your current
caloric intake to find out what you "maintain" on. You need to get your
heart rate up and burn some extra calories to create a better deficit.
Yoga stretches don't count. Doing exercise "when weather and energy
permit" is a copout attitude. You need to make more of an effort if you
want to see results. Walking for 30 minutes per day would be a good
start.

Sleeping for 10-12 hrs per day sounds to me like serious depression or
some other medical problem that needs addressing. Have you had all your
levels checked? Had a recent panel done? Ruled out any hormone issues?

You're either going to have to accept your body the way it is now, or
become willing to pay the price to reach your goals. You might not like
hearing that, but that's the way it is. Losing weight doesn't occur
through osmosis ;-)

"Edna Pearl" wrote in message

Like, somebody in this thread says "walk thirty minutes a day" and I
think, "What? Am I supposed to do this *instead of* kayaking? That would
be sad. Or *in addition to* climbing mountains, swimming, bicycling? That
makes no sense."

OH, how you like to twist words. You said that you do that "weather
permitting", and that you do some exercise about "once a week". Once a week
is not going to cut it as far as creating a deficit that will yield any
significant weight loss, unless each time you exercise is for several hours.
I have a hrm, and when I am out hiking, I burn about 5 calories per hour.
That is not all that significant. During kayaking, my heart rate doesn't go
up that high either, and I burn also around 5 calories per hour. Swimming
is marginally better. Even during mountain biking, where I am doing a ton
of hills on rough surfaces I only average 5 calories per hour. You are
probably not burning as many calories as you think you are. Gardening
doesn't burn many calories either.

My suggestion to do 30 minutes of walking every day was intended as "in
addition to" the one other day of exercise that you say that you get.

I think I'm just having trouble thinking this through. But the radical
change/shock to the routine does seem to be called for. And it seems to
me that something more structured could be productive. An idea: I
wrecked a racing bike a while back. If I bought a new one I be motivated
to "play with it," i.e., ride it every day for a few weeks in addition to
whatever else I do. Sure, I might not hike as much, but that's fine. How
does a forty-five minute bike sprint five days a week sound? (How many
days a week do you run, Sue? Distances?)

If you like biking enough to do it every day, that is even better than
walking for the 30 min I suggested. It was merely a suggestion. The bottom
line is, you need to do something that ELEVATES YOUR HEART RATE every day.

"Edna Pearl" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
ups.com...
I know some people don't count calories and manage to lose weight, but
since weight loss and gain is a mathematical equation, it is best to
keep track of calories consumed and your dietary needs.

I don't actually agree with that, but I'm not trying to argue, here.
I'm responding to see if maybe we can communicate constructively. If
neither you nor I get anything useful out of it because we're just on
such different pages, then maybe somebody reading this will.

Knowing
calories in foods also helps you make good choices.

I do, in fact, have a good idea of the calories in foods from having
learned to count them earlier in life, as I said. I can pretty much
look at a plate of food and count a hundred calories here, 65 there,
etc., but I'm not going to bother to add them up. The PORTIONS I
describe in my post do that for me. Counting portions (or checking
them off a list, like I do) has the same import and result as counting
calories. There is no relevant difference IF you know, as I do, that
this vegetable or fruit has more calories than that vegetable or fruit,
where the empty calories are and how to avoid them, etc.

As far as exercise,
you simply must get some to stay healthy and it helps with losing
weight a little too. Walking is great exercise.

So are kayaking, bicycling, swimming, hiking, climbing, weight-lifting,
gardening -- all of which I do, as I said in my post. Walking is
decent exercise, sure, but it's not my favorite because the repetitive,
identical steps bother my bad foot if I repeat the same step/movement
for any period of time.

Many people weigh once a week or so, but you have to weigh yourself to
check your progress. Not weighing yourself otherwise becomes denial.

I don't agree with this. There are plenty of more meaningful ways to
check progress than the number on a scale, unless you only count the
numbers on the scale as progress, by definition, so to speak. Clothing
size, the amount of weight you can lift, the distance you can swim,
etc., are meaningful, functional measures of progress. A number on a
scale is just an annoying social construct, to me.

People who are serious dieters are fanatical at keeping track of their
weight usually.

I have no desire to be a serious dieter :-) I'm not trying to be
snarky -- but do you see my point? I want to be healthy, I want to
comfortable, I want to look good. I do not want to be a serious
"dieter."

In fact, once someone with a weight problem stops
weighing themselves, it is almost always because deep down, they know
they are gaining weight and don't want to face it. Oh, they face it
eventually when they are 100 pounds overweight.

That's sad. I feel pretty confident that I don't have much talent for
denial of this type. Sometimes I wish I did, in healthy doses. A
little denial is a good thing, believe it or not. :-)

I wish there were an easy way to lose weight, but there isn't. It's
calories, calories, calories. After that comes a moderate amount of
exercise.

Well, yeah, kind of, but this is really oversimplified. You burn more
calories if your metabolism is higher. Muscle burns more calories than
fat. Etc., etc.

The mix of carbs, fat, protein might effect your health, but
it doesn't make any difference as far as your weight goes, IMO.

Well, no research I've ever read supports your opinion. There are ways
of living, eating, and exercising that maximize fitness and fat-loss
above (while also minimizing hunger) beyond the simple counting of
calories in disregard of whether those calories are empty or nutritious
or part of a balanced diet. I really don't think there's any debate
about that in the scientific literature. You can take the simple
attitude you describe and make a certain amount of progress with it,
but that doesn't make it the last word on the subject. If you aren't
interested in learning more about health and nutrition, that's fine,
great, live long and prosper. By the same token, I'm not interested in
counting up calorie estimates and pretending like the counts are
telling me something I want to know. Again, I'm not trying to be
snarky, I'm just saying what I have to say, and maybe somebody else can
get something out of what I'm saying, or maybe you'd like to discuss it
further, too. In any event, thanks for taking the time to respond and
good luck with your fitness goals.

I've somehow lost the part of your post that says that losing weight is
not easy, or something to that effect. I hope you're not assuming that
I think it's supposed to be; and I doubt anything in my post suggested
that it should be. In my experience, change is challenging. It sure
beats the alternative, though.

ep
If you are not losing weight then you need to eat less and/or exercise
more. It is relatively easy to eat enough to not lose while getting any
reasonable amount of exercise, including army basic training or week long
wilderness canoe trips . At least it is for me. Like, walk for an
hour. Eat a sandwich. have a glass of milk. pretty much even. Paddle
a canoe 20 miles. Have a couple of drinks and a couple handfulls of
peanuts. pretty much even.

Sympathy from strangers isn't going to make you lose weight. And
weighing at least weekly is, in my opinion, important because that is the
objective you are trying to achieve. If you don't measure how you are
doing how would you know if what you are doing is working?

Dealing with your anger might be helpful as well. Sometimes life isn't
fair and downright sucks. Medicating with food and alcohol doesn't
change that, as I believe you know. It is hard to let go of it though.

I could go on. But I figure you don't want to hear it. so

good luck

del

Let me share just a bit of my experience. I, too, had "blossomed" to 230
plus pounds. On May 12, 2006, it became imperative for health reasons to
lose weight. The first 30 pounds came off quickly for me, too. But I hit a
stall at 195, even though I was careful about what I ate, and had no junk of
any kind in my diet.

I was frustrated for a while, but I realized that nothing was going to
change unless I changed what I was doing. So, as much as it pained me, I
did start to count calories. I did become picky about portion sizes instead
of just guessing. I didn't set a limit for how many calories per day I
would eat--just kept track. I found out that I was eating more than I
thought I was. And the weight started coming off again--40+ more pounds so
far.

I think that my problem with calorie counting in the past was that it set me
up to fail--because I set an artificial limit, then beat myself up if I
didn't keep to that limit. Now, my relationship with calories is just
informational. If I hit a plateau, I can look to see if it could possibly
be my food intake. I have the information to make adjustments if I need to.

One thing I am very careful about is breakfast. I eat it every day, no
matter what. I have found that if I eat a decent breakfast, I am not
starving and in need of munchies when I come home from work in the
afternoon.

Another thing I monitor closely is any after-dinner snacking. I don't eat
within a couple of hours of going to bed.

I try to keep my activity level high. I like to walk--fast. I go to Curves
3 times a week. In the summer, I swam 4 days a week. I have a recumbent
exercise cycle that I use when I just can't get outside to exercise.

Other than that, I am patient with myself. That has not always been the
case.

I wish you well, Edna, and hope you find your solution. I know you will if
you keep looking for it.

"Edna Pearl" wrote in message
...
Well Jesus Christ, that's real encouraging. I don't think I've ever
received a message that unpleasant and discouraging in a support group
from anybody -- except of course trolls.

Fortunately, the message is so totally loaded with fallacies I can't take
it very seriously. It focusses entirely on calorie-counting while failing
to point out a single solitary thing I might change except suggesting I
count calories. Plenty of people, in fact, MOST people lose weight
without counting calories. Including people you purport to admire, like
Krista, who knows considerably more about fitness and nutrition than you
do. Trying to find a "baseline" and then work around it is voodoo dieting
that fails to take account of how much a person's bodily processes and
metabolism changes -- it's a waste of time unless the person takes some
motivation from the counting process itself, and I don't. Furthermore, my
reference to "weather permitting" simply means, for example, that I don't
swim outdoors in winter (we just had an entire thread here about people
who don't bicycle in cold weather, which, in fact, I DO) -- and your
assumption that it means something else says a lot more about you than it
does me. Oh, and thanks for telling me I need to stop feeling sorry for
myself about my mom dying. Aren't you a special person.

I could go on and on, but **** that, I have a life. If nobody in this ng
can come up with anything better than that, I guess I know all I need to
know about this "support group."

Oh, and Betsy, **** you. "You might not like hearing that," but it's
considerably nicer than and just as productive as what you've said to me.
How's this for advice: You need learn at least learn some manners, if you
can't manage to grow any compassion.

ep

"determined" wrote in message
...

"Edna Pearl" wrote in message
...
Can you help?

My progress just feels too slow, and I am discouraged.

Number one, I don't weigh myself, and I'm not going to. I don't count
calories, and I'm not going to. I'm 49yo, and I've been through that
****,
and it wasn't productive when I was younger, and it's not going to be
productive now that I'm older, perimenopausal, with all sorts of
orthopedic
problems. I don't count things in any aspect of my life.

I'm 5'4", American , I have weighed in the 130s most of my life, size
8-10.
I topped out around 230, size 22, while I was ill and my mother was
dying
last year. I weigh around 200 right now and am a size 16-18. I went
through a couple of kinds of hell last year. When my mother finally
died in
March and I quit drinking my way through my pain in May, the first 30
pounds
dropped off immediately. (I know this because I was going to the doctor
and
hospital frequently and was weighed there. Again, I don't weigh
myself.)

I write for a living and have an sedentary, academic, artistic
lifestyle,
except for the fact that I ride my bike to do my errands a couple of
times a
week, and I have large gardens (flower and vegetable) that my SO
maintains
and that I help in and walk around in every day. Add to that, I try to
lift
a couple of times a week (heavy, complex). I kayak, bicycle, hike, and
swim
when weather and my energy levels permit -- so I do one of these about
once
a week. I start my days with stretching, including yoga postures.

I sleep 10-12 hours per day. Weird, I know, but I've always needed a
lot of
sleep to function at my best. I believe I have a metabolism that is
toward
the slow end of the spectrum.

I also have some physical injuries (atrophied right rhomboid, chronic
plantar fasciitis (sp?) in left foot, chronic subluxation of left hip,
and,
at the moment, tendonitis in my left shoulder and elbow that has been
there
for MONTHS and just WON'T get better). I am in fairly constant pain,
which interrupts my sleep.

Okay, so I quit drinking in May and started my current way of eating in
mid-October. I keep a checklist of food portions on my fridge and check
off
what I eat, as follows:

2-3 dairy
3-4 fruit
4 veggies
6 meat/protein
8 whole grains/carbs

The portions are as follows:

Dairy: a cup of milk or yogurt, or 1-1/2 ounces of nonfat or lowfat
cheese
Fruit: a medium apple, banana, or orange; 1/2 cup of chopped cooked or
canned fruit; or 3/4 cup of fruit juice
Vegetables: a cup of raw, leafy vegetables; 1/2 cup of other vegetables
(cooked or chopped raw); or 3/4 cup of vegetable juice
Meat/protein: one ounce cooked lean meat, poultry, or fish; one egg; 1/2
cup
of cooked legumes; three ounces of tofu; or two tablespoons of peanut
butter
Grains/carbs: one-half bagel, one slice of bread, 3/4 cup of
ready-to-eat
cereal, 1/2 cup of cooked cereal or pasta, or 3 cups of popcorn

I add flax seed oil to my diet and take calcium and a good multivitamin
daily. I take extra iron when I have a big blood loss, which
occasionally happens during this phase of the Joys Of Middle-Aged
Womanhood.

I have adhered to this WOE pretty closely since mid-October. My butt
shrank a little, immediately. My waist has not budged. Not BUDGED. My
next goal is to get into a pair of size 14 technical pants I have
hanging in my closet, and I am NO CLOSER than I was at the end of
October.

Before I quit drinking, started watching my diet, and developed a better
exercise routine, I was bedridden for months at a time, slept even more
than I do now, drank heavily, ate whatever the hell I wanted (including
fast food, restaurant portions four times a decent portion size and
swimming in butter, cookie binges, whatever). It seems to me that I
should be seeing more results than I am. I'm still tired and fat, and I
still have low energy.

Are my expectations unrealistic? Is my thinking wrong? How can I see
results?

ep

Are your expectations unrealistic? Maybe. You want something that for
most of us requires sacrifice, hard work, and diligence. You don't seem
willing to do what it will take to reach the goal you want.

Is your thinking wrong? That is very subjective, but imo, yes. You have
a very close minded attitude towards counting calories. You seem to be
unwilling to change, and ****ed off that you can't lose weight with your
current WOL. Change happens when we become willing to take the necessary
steps to make it happen. The question is, how bad do you want it?

How can you see results? Stop feeling sorry for yourself and get with
the program! You need to figure out where you stand with your current
caloric intake to find out what you "maintain" on. You need to get your
heart rate up and burn some extra calories to create a better deficit.
Yoga stretches don't count. Doing exercise "when weather and energy
permit" is a copout attitude. You need to make more of an effort if you
want to see results. Walking for 30 minutes per day would be a good
start.

Sleeping for 10-12 hrs per day sounds to me like serious depression or
some other medical problem that needs addressing. Have you had all your
levels checked? Had a recent panel done? Ruled out any hormone issues?

You're either going to have to accept your body the way it is now, or
become willing to pay the price to reach your goals. You might not like
hearing that, but that's the way it is. Losing weight doesn't occur
through osmosis ;-)

"determined" wrote in message
...
I said you need to find out what your current caloric intake is so you can
figure out what you are maintaining at, because obviously you are
maintaining, which means you do not have a caloric deficit.

Knowing the calorie-intake level I am currently consuming wouldn't tell me
anything useful that I don't already know. Think about it. As I've
explained elsewhere in this thread, I "count" (actually, use a checklist of)
portions. This has the same result and import as counting calories. No
relevant difference at all. Okay, so I know how much I'm eating. So what?

A person will maintain the same weight at different calorie levels depending
on exercise, metabolism, hormone levels, etc. -- a literally immeasurable
number of factors. If you enjoy trying to estimate all these factors in
numeric terms, fine. Enjoy. I don't enjoy it. But I do have a general
idea of where I am in terms of input and output, and it's probably no less
accurate than your own estimates.

I also said you need to get your heart rate up to burn more calories.

I am (obviously) aware of the general impact of cardio on calorie-burning.
I am doing regular cardio. I said so in my post. As I said, I use a
bicycle on my errands. Biking is great cardio. I bike 20-40 minutes a day
at least three days a week. I also do some heavy cardio, like kayaking,
distance biking, hiking, etc., etc., etc., at least once a week.

If you have any actual experience with the efficacy of various timings and
duration of cardio work-outs, great, maybe I can learn something! Let's
talk. But it's just not really helpful to tell me to do cardio when I've
already said I'm doing it.

Lifting weight doesn't do that and neither does yoga type stretching.

I mentioned the yoga because it is relevant to my injuries. I never
suggested that it burns calores. That would be silly. I am also aware of
the difference between strength-training and cardio. Thank you. As you are
aware, strength-training enhances calorie-use and fat-reduction.

I also suggested starting with a 30 minute walk every day.

Am I supposed to do this *instead of* kayaking for a couple of hours? That
would be sad. Or am I supposed to do it *in addition to* hiking up
mountains? And what good would this do that my bicycling on errands does
not do? This didn't make any sense to me when you suggested it, so I just
assumed you had not read my post. (And incidentally, lots of research
indicates that it's a good idea to refrain from exercise at least day per
week.)

As I also mentioned in technical and (probably misspelled) terms, I am,
simply put, lame in one foot. Repetitive, identical steps are not a good
choice for regular cardio, for me.

Again, if you have any meaningful information about how to optimize my
cardio, I'd be delighted to hear it. Like, some people swear by doing it in
the morning, and that really worked for me at one point in my life -- is
that a total myth? Or is it worth trying? Would it be likely to do
something for me that my current routine is not doing, or would it just be a
meaningless change?

So as far as not pointing out "a single solitary thing I might change",
maybe you need to reread my post.

Or again, maybe not. Maybe you should have read mine in the first place
:-)

I do admire Krista. She has a tremendous amount of info on her website.
However, ymmv. If Krista's information is working out for you, then by
all means, keep doing what you are doing.

Krista's information does work for me, as far as it goes. But I'm not sure
what I'm doing is working as well as it could. Hence my post including all
the relevant factors I could think of, including health problems, hormonal
changes, and emotional issues.

If you don't know what your average calorie intake is, how can you know
what you need to change?

I do know my average calorie intake, as I've said. You can determine it
yourself by adding up the average calories in my daily checklist of food
portions, since you're the one who likes numbers. What do you think this is
supposed to tell me about what I need to change? Seriously. I'm asking. I
don't think it tells me a dang thing about what I need to change, but maybe
you know something I don't. F'rinstance, I don't think knowing my calorie
intake, in isolation, tells me anything about whether I need to eat fewer or
more calories today, tomorrow, on a daily basis, or whenever or how often.

Furthermore, my reference to
"weather permitting" simply means, for example, that I don't swim
outdoors in winter (we just had an entire thread here about people who
don't bicycle in cold weather, which, in fact, I DO) -- and your
assumption that it means something else says a lot more about you than it
does me.
NO, what you said was "I kayak, bicycle, hike, and swim when weather and
my energy evels permit".

You're apparently seeing a difference in meaning that escapes me.

YOu can hike and bicycle in almost any weather, so your blanket statement
sounds more like a copout than anything.

Hmm. It sounds to me like you jumped to an unwarranted and unflattering
conclusion. But that's just me.

Oh, and thanks
for telling me I need to stop feeling sorry for myself about my mom
dying. Aren't you a special person.
YOu know, I was not referring to your mother dying.

I knew no such thing.

I am sorry for your loss, but I am referring to your "poor me" attitude
about weight loss -

If asking for help and support is a "poor me" attitude, then I'm it. But I
thought that's what support groups were for.

you have a plethora of reasons (excuses) why you are fat, and why you
cannot lose weight.

WTF are you talking about?!?!?!?!?! I included every factor I thought might
be relevant -- perimenopausal hormones, recent illness and emotional trauma,
minor disabilities, the radical extent to which I've change my lifestyle in
the past couple of months -- so that anybody could respond to any particular
factor they had experience with or information about or insight into or
sympathy for or whatever. If you choose to see that as a "plethora" of
"excuses," that's *you*. You didn't get it from *me*.

There are many people here with super busy lifestyles, health problems,
etc, that have managed to lose plenty of weight.

Gee whiz, do ya think so? That's why I posted, for cryin' out loud. I
hoped somebody might like to share something helpful or supportive.

I guess Edna what you really need right now is a hug.

No thanks.

Well, here you go
HUGS. I guess you didn't come here for honest opinions and
advice,
but for atta boys and warm fuzzy encouragement. Sorry, I don't do that.
But maybe someone else here will.
You need learn at least learn some manners, if you can't manage to grow
any compassion.
Manners? I guess I could take some lessons from you, huh?

You probably could, if I were offering them.

ep

"determined" wrote in message
. ..
OH, how you like to twist words. You said that you do that "weather
permitting", and that you do some exercise about "once a week".

WTF? Who's twisting words? Here's what I said, and I quote:

------------

"I write for a living and have an sedentary, academic, artistic lifestyle,
except for the fact that I ride my bike to do my errands a couple of times a
week, and I have large gardens (flower and vegetable) that my SO maintains
and that I help in and walk around in every day. Add to that, I try to lift
a couple of times a week (heavy, complex). I kayak, bicycle, hike, and swim
when weather and my energy levels permit -- so I do one of these about once
a week. I start my days with stretching, including yoga postures."

-------------

I was attempting to give an overall picture of my physical activities, while
you took one phrase out of context. My activity totals a MINIMUM of two
days weight-training and three days cardio, at least one day of which is
heavy cardio.

I actually understated the number of days I'm using my bike for errands, I
now realize. And maybe you don't realize that kayaking involves lifting and
carrying a fifty pound boat and paddling it one thousand strokes per mile.
That's just for example.

I was trying to sound self-effacing instead of sounding like some kind of
braggart JOCK, for crying out loud.

Once a week is not going to cut it as far as creating a deficit that will
yield any significant weight loss, unless each time you exercise is for
several hours. I have a hrm, and when I am out hiking, I burn about 5
calories per hour. That is not all that significant. During kayaking, my
heart rate doesn't go up that high either, and I burn also around 5
calories per hour. Swimming is marginally better. Even during mountain
biking, where I am doing a ton of hills on rough surfaces I only average 5
calories per hour. You are probably not burning as many calories as you
think you are. Gardening doesn't burn many calories either.

Well, like I said, I don't count calories. But if you're not getting your
heartrate up when you paddle or bike or hike, then you're not me,
apparently. For one thing, you're doubtless in much better physical
condition than I am at the moment, so your resting heartrate is probably
lower and your endurance is probably better, so maybe it takes quite a bit
of cardio to get your heart rate up. Fine, whatever. Personally, I get my
heart rate up when I do cardio, and I do as much as I'm able. I don't do it
wearing gym clothes on a machine that counts my calories for me, but I do
it.

Incidentally, the number of calories you burn per unit of time is just
another meaningless number. The biggest benefit cardio adds to the
weight-loss process is that it increases the body's calorie consumption for
an extended time period *after* the cardio is actually completed.

If you have any tips on how to optimize my cardio besides counting it,
great.

My suggestion to do 30 minutes of walking every day was intended as "in
addition to" the one other day of exercise that you say that you get.

You think I should walk 30 minutes in addition to . . . . oh never mind.

ep

"Del Cecchi" wrote in message
...
If you are not losing weight then you need to eat less and/or exercise
more.

I am getting the impression that everybody who believes that all you have to
do to get fit is (1) eat less, (2) exercise more, (3) count what you eat,
and (4) weigh yourself, also has a practice of (5) insulting the intentions,
motivations, intelligence, and mental health of anyone who contradicts them
with, like, actual facts.

Sympathy from strangers isn't going to make you lose weight.

Who suggested it would? Why are you telling me this?

And weighing at least weekly is, in my opinion, important because that is
the objective you are trying to achieve.

My objective is to weigh myself? I think you mean to say that my objective
is to lose weight? My objectives are actually to be fit, strong, healthy,
comfortable, etc. What it says on the scale is just one way of measuring
just one aspect of what is actually a very complex lifestyle issue. And I
have no intention of subjecting myself to that particular measure on a
weekly basis. Heck, I can gain ten pounds during a single menstrual period.
And a conventional scale does not reflect how much muscle I'm building
versus how much fat I'm losing.

If you don't measure how you are doing how would you know if what you are
doing is working?

It really does surprise me that so many people here are asking this
question, or making this point, or whatever. It really does surprise me.
How about if I *feel* better? I look better? I can lift more weight? I
can swim further? If my clothing size drops? If i jiggle less?

There are lots of non-weight measures of success are in the FAQs for this
group, by the way. Does anybody here every read or post the FAQs any more?

Dealing with your anger might be helpful as well.

Ah! Usenet psychotherapy! Always a treat.

Sometimes life isn't fair and downright sucks.

And Usenet philosophy, too!

Medicating with food and alcohol doesn't change that, as I believe you
know. It is hard to let go of it though.

No harder than changing any other unhealthy behavior. Change and growth
are, indeed, challenging.

If you'll actually read my original post, I think you'll see that I have
made quite a few difficult and healthy changes in the past few months! Wow!
And to think nobody here even seems to have noticed that so far!

I could go on. But I figure you don't want to hear it. so

Is there some reason why I *should* want to hear more of this? I mean,
really. Look at your post.

good luck

Thanks.

So far, one person here has given me some helpful ideas in a friendly
manner. (Thanks again, Sue.) There seems to be a preponderance of people
who are just here to criticize people. That can make a newsgroup really
unpleasant, you know. I think I'm starting to realize why so few people
post in this ng. It did strike me as odd that there was so little
meaningful traffic here. Does anybody reading this know of a better forum?

ep

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...
Let me share just a bit of my experience. I, too, had "blossomed" to 230
plus pounds. On May 12, 2006, it became imperative for health reasons to
lose weight. The first 30 pounds came off quickly for me, too.

We seem to share some magic numbers, here :-)

But I hit a
stall at 195, even though I was careful about what I ate, and had no junk
of
any kind in my diet.
I was frustrated for a while,

Do you happen to recall how long this plateau lasted?

but I realized that nothing was going to
change unless I changed what I was doing. So, as much as it pained me, I
did start to count calories. I did become picky about portion sizes
instead
of just guessing. I didn't set a limit for how many calories per day I
would eat--just kept track. I found out that I was eating more than I
thought I was. And the weight started coming off again--40+ more pounds
so
far.

Congratulations!

I don't guess my portion sizes. Some things are easy because I eat them
regularly and can just judge the portion in relation to the size of my hand
or my plate or whatever, but, when in doubt, I measure with a scale or a
measuring cup, as appropriate.

I appear to have confused a lot of people here by saying I don't count
calories. As you can see from my post, I do "count" portions (I actually
check them off on a list on the fridge), and given a basic awareness of how
many calories are in what and even resort to a calorie book if I've eaten a
novel food, it would be easy to add up the calories at the end of the day.
It's just that doesn't tell me anything I don't already know. So I'm not in
a position to compare calorie counts with you. If somebody wanted to
compare calorie counts with me, it would be a very simple matter to get an
average from the portion list I already posted. Sure, I'll get more
calories from a given portion of vegetables if I eat a carrot rather than a
stick of celery, but I know that, and it's simple to make a mental
adjustment to eat my next meal accordingly. This is exactly what Weight
Watchers used to do (prolly still does, I dunno), and a lot of other diet
programs, too, that rely on "points," "exchanges," "portions," whatever.

Does *everybody* on this ng count calories only? Surely there is somebody
else here who "counts" portions?

FWIW, I've done the math enough times in my life to know that I'm eating
between 1100 and 1600 calories a day when I eat on this routine of portions,
and I deliberately vary that amount within that range. (Do we need to get
into *why* I vary the amount? Surely somebody else here can explain that
better than I can. :-)

I think that my problem with calorie counting in the past was that it set
me
up to fail--because I set an artificial limit, then beat myself up if I
didn't keep to that limit. Now, my relationship with calories is just
informational. If I hit a plateau, I can look to see if it could possibly
be my food intake. I have the information to make adjustments if I need
to.

That's really good insight: "informational." That's how I look at my
checklist of portions, as information. I have a tendency to put the first
priority on making sure I get enough fruits and veggies. I also tend to try
to get extra protein from vegetable, fruits, and grains, before I even think
about the meat category. Then the dairy and the meat categories tend to
fall into place by themselves.

One thing I am very careful about is breakfast. I eat it every day, no
matter what. I have found that if I eat a decent breakfast, I am not
starving and in need of munchies when I come home from work in the
afternoon.

It really does seem to help me stay less hungry during the day if I eat a
lot of protein in my breakfast. By the same token, it does *not* work for
me to try to "save up" calories so I can splurge on dinner.

Another thing I monitor closely is any after-dinner snacking. I don't eat
within a couple of hours of going to bed.

Okay, dirty little secret here :-) I do, in fact, have a couple of cups of
Lipton Cream of Chicken Cup-A-Soup before I go to bed, for a total of two
carb portions, 120 calories. It seems to settle my stomach and help me
sleep better -- probably just because it's a relaxing bedtime ritual. I
find it hard to imagine that I am sabotaging myself by saving a couple of
carb portions for these empty calories before bed. Can it be?

I try to keep my activity level high. I like to walk--fast. I go to
Curves
3 times a week. In the summer, I swam 4 days a week. I have a recumbent
exercise cycle that I use when I just can't get outside to exercise.

I am wondering whether I am physically able to do this much. I doubt it. I
have to rest my shoulder for days between swims, for example. I've been
trying to build up my endurance since I was sick, but it's slow going.
Please note that I have really only been trying to stay on a regimen for
about six weeks now. I *have* made good strength gains with lifting. I'm
pretty knowledgeable about lifting, having done it since I was a ballet
student decades ago. (I used to be the only chick in the gym, back in the
day. :-) So I have no complaints so far with how I'm maximizing my results
with muscle-building and strength training. I could do better if I didn't
have to work around my (minor) injuries, but couldn't we all do "better"?
:-) I'm not complaining.

Other than that, I am patient with myself. That has not always been the
case.

Amen. I hear you.

I wish you well, Edna, and hope you find your solution. I know you will
if
you keep looking for it.

Thanks, Teach. :-) And congratulations again on your weight loss. I'll
bet you're feeling pretty good at this point, or you wouldn't have such a
beautiful work-out schedule. Success is its own reward, right?

ep

"Edna Pearl" wrote in message

FWIW, I've done the math enough times in my life to know that I'm eating
between 1100 and 1600 calories a day when I eat on this routine of
portions, and I deliberately vary that amount within that range. (Do we
need to get into *why* I vary the amount? Surely somebody else here can
explain that better than I can. :-)

I am 5'3", 127lbs, and I maintain my weight at 1600 calories per day, with
NO exercise. Yes, you are older, apparently have a slower metabolism, and
are perimenopausal, but also, you are carrying around alot more weight than
I am, so should be able to lose at 1600 calories per day with no problem. I
just find it very hard to believe that you are eating as low as you think
you are.

"Edna Pearl" wrote in message
.. .
"determined" wrote in message
. ..
OH, how you like to twist words. You said that you do that "weather
permitting", and that you do some exercise about "once a week".

WTF? Who's twisting words? Here's what I said, and I quote:

------------

"I write for a living and have an sedentary, academic, artistic lifestyle,
except for the fact that I ride my bike to do my errands a couple of times
a
week, and I have large gardens (flower and vegetable) that my SO maintains
and that I help in and walk around in every day. Add to that, I try to
lift
a couple of times a week (heavy, complex). I kayak, bicycle, hike, and
swim
when weather and my energy levels permit -- so I do one of these about
once
a week. I start my days with stretching, including yoga postures."

-------------

I was attempting to give an overall picture of my physical activities,
while you took one phrase out of context. My activity totals a MINIMUM of
two days weight-training and three days cardio, at least one day of which
is heavy cardio.

I actually understated the number of days I'm using my bike for errands, I
now realize. And maybe you don't realize that kayaking involves lifting
and carrying a fifty pound boat and paddling it one thousand strokes per
mile. That's just for example.

You have a heavy kayak. Mine only weighs around 35lbs, and I don't carry it
all that far - I generally drop my kayak off at the ramp with my pick up.
And yes, I know how many strokes I paddle, but it is more of a resistance
exercise than a cardio exercise, for me anyways - my heart rate doesn't come
anywhere close to what it does during cardio.

Perhaps you could invest in a heart rate monitor. It will give you a better
idea what your heart rate is during these exercises, and a better estimate
of how many calories you are burning.

I was trying to sound self-effacing instead of sounding like some kind of
braggart JOCK, for crying out loud.

I didn't think you were sounding like a jock or a braggart. Not sure where
that comment came from...

Once a week is not going to cut it as far as creating a deficit that will
yield any significant weight loss, unless each time you exercise is for
several hours. I have a hrm, and when I am out hiking, I burn about 5
calories per hour. That is not all that significant. During kayaking, my
heart rate doesn't go up that high either, and I burn also around 5
calories per hour. Swimming is marginally better. Even during mountain
biking, where I am doing a ton of hills on rough surfaces I only average
5 calories per hour. You are probably not burning as many calories as
you think you are. Gardening doesn't burn many calories either.

Well, like I said, I don't count calories. But if you're not getting your
heartrate up when you paddle or bike or hike,

I'm not saying I don't get my heart rate up during biking - it ranges from
120 on flat ground to 165 on hills, but even with that, I'm only burning an
average of 5 calories per minute. You have to maintain that high heart rate
to burn much more than that. Seriously, my heart rate doesn't go up much
when I'm hiking unless I'm carrying a pack or the trail is steep. Paddling
doesn't have a cardio effect for me at all.

then you're not me,
apparently. For one thing, you're doubtless in much better physical
condition than I am at the moment, so your resting heartrate is probably
lower and your endurance is probably better, so maybe it takes quite a bit
of cardio to get your heart rate up. Fine, whatever. Personally, I get
my heart rate up when I do cardio, and I do as much as I'm able. I don't
do it wearing gym clothes on a machine that counts my calories for me, but
I do it.

Incidentally, the number of calories you burn per unit of time is just
another meaningless number. The biggest benefit cardio adds to the
weight-loss process is that it increases the body's calorie consumption
for an extended time period *after* the cardio is actually completed.

Studies have shown that cardio does NOT up the calories burned
post-exercise. Weight lifting will do that, but cardio's affect on
metabolism post-workout is very minimal at best. Google it. I'm not making
it up.

If you have any tips on how to optimize my cardio besides counting it,
great.

Just do something every day. Your initial post did not clearly state that
you were doing cardio on a regular basis.

My suggestion to do 30 minutes of walking every day was intended as "in
addition to" the one other day of exercise that you say that you get.

You think I should walk 30 minutes in addition to . . . . oh never mind.

Ok.