Low carb and endurance running -- results of my experiment

On 2004-09-22, Ignoramus6334 wrote:
In article , Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
On 2004-09-21, Ignoramus6334 wrote:
In article , Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
On 2004-09-20, Robert Grumbine wrote:

Good thing, then, that you're not in charge of my running club's
advertising.

Or any other position of consequence. I doubt many people would want to
be coached by someone called "Ignoramus474".

Just curious, would you want to be coached by me if I renamed myself
to "omniscient83754".

It's not just the name, but the fact that it suits you so well.


So, you would not take advice from me, but would take advice from
another, perhaps more knowledgeable, person even if that another
person was calling himself Ignoramus474?

IMO, anyone who calls himself either "Ignoramus474" or "omniscient83754"
is probably an idiot. Probably not someone I'd take seriously anyway.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

In article 4IV3d.12439$%42.4412@trndny08, Tony
writes
The body can also be trained to burn fats better by doing extremely long
distance at low intensity.

How long? Ultra-type length? And what intensity? People keep
blathering about a fat-burning zone between 120 and 140HB, but I imagine
you mean something more complex.

What you experienced probably was the muscles
getting what they wanted and needed to perform better - and that's why your
speed increased. Carbs have also been shown to enhance muscle recovery
after exercise.

Yes, I hear this too. Never works for me. If anything my muscle ache
was worse after a week in NYC in which I ran v long, but had a carby
breakfast afterwards. In the same way, I don't benefit from running in
Proper Shoes. I'm just odd, I guess. Sigh. And I certainly couldn't
run at tempo for six hours .

I'm keen to hear more about your TKD programme. I'm not wedded to VERY
lowcarbing, Atkins-style, but I AM keen to avoid junk carbs - sugar and
white bread, including high-glycemic fruit. I sit at your feet.

--
Jane Lumley

In article hE%2d.597$Ec4.193@trndny04, Tony
writes
If you can run a marathon in less than four hours with severely restricted
carbs - and feel good at the end - then it would show that you're an
individual who can run sustained distances while burning fat almost
exclusively as fuel. It would show nothing about what others are capable of
doing; only that you're one who can. There are great differences in
individual's metabolisms, perhaps related to blood type and/or other
variations in body type, perhaps not; but no diet works equally well for all
individuals.

You know, I'm now wondering if those who can do this are also those who
store fat easily and thus develop weight problems in the first place.
--
Jane Lumley

In article hE%2d.597$Ec4.193@trndny04, Tony
writes
If you can run a marathon in less than four hours with severely restricted
carbs - and feel good at the end - then it would show that you're an
individual who can run sustained distances while burning fat almost
exclusively as fuel. It would show nothing about what others are capable of
doing; only that you're one who can. There are great differences in
individual's metabolisms, perhaps related to blood type and/or other
variations in body type, perhaps not; but no diet works equally well for all
individuals.

You know, I'm now wondering if those who can do this are also those who
store fat easily and thus develop weight problems in the first place.
--
Jane Lumley

"Donovan Rebbechi" wrote in message
...
On 2004-09-20, Ignoramus23984
wrote:

Supposedly, higher protein diets are also better at sparing lean mass
than high carb diets.

High protein and high carb are not mutually exclusive. Endurance
athletes who
are attentive to the research eat quite a lot of protein as well as
carbs.

Amen Dovovan! It is, always has been, and unless we as humans morph to
something entirely different in a million years or so, is about balance.
I admit the so called balance has some flexibility. Non exercising
people can get by with more radical shifts such as the LC fad diet.
When you rev the engine and throw in exercise, and the more you exercise
you add, the more you realize you need balance. When one does not keep
the balance mother mature will smack the **** out you.

One of the reasons I drink CLIP during my races is to get a consistent
Maltodextrin carb AND protein.

_DF

"Donovan Rebbechi" wrote in message
...
On 2004-09-20, Ignoramus23984
wrote:

Supposedly, higher protein diets are also better at sparing lean mass
than high carb diets.

High protein and high carb are not mutually exclusive. Endurance
athletes who
are attentive to the research eat quite a lot of protein as well as
carbs.

Amen Dovovan! It is, always has been, and unless we as humans morph to
something entirely different in a million years or so, is about balance.
I admit the so called balance has some flexibility. Non exercising
people can get by with more radical shifts such as the LC fad diet.
When you rev the engine and throw in exercise, and the more you exercise
you add, the more you realize you need balance. When one does not keep
the balance mother mature will smack the **** out you.

One of the reasons I drink CLIP during my races is to get a consistent
Maltodextrin carb AND protein.

_DF

"MU" wrote in message
...
Muscle glycogen
is preserved by the body when possible, burning fats first.

Rarely. Systemic glycogen (liver, muscle etc) is a primary source of
fuel
for human motion. Fats are into the fuel equation (again, very
generally)
when these primary sources are (nearly) consumed.

And that is bull **** and I don't care what your credentials are. You
burn glycogen and fat ( obviously not the fat in our asses) at every
bloody moment it time. The ratio of burn is proportional to speed.
Sprinters burn solid glycogen while endurance folks like myself that run
for 20+ hours burn mostly fat. Endurance folks train their bodies via
the long run and speed work to enhance burning fat as opposed to
glycogen so you don't bonk. .

What you are referring to, or so it seems, is called bonking - when you
run out glycogen and the system tries to burn pure fat. Stand at mile
22-24 of a marathon and you'll witness big time as people are walking,
shuffling in pain

Here is fun read that I found in a two second query
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0361.htm which really covers Sear's and
how a 40 percent carb is inefficient for sports. Now Atkins is more
extreme and borders on the Looney bin.

Improve it? Maybe. Rely on it? Certainly.

No it's improve and not a maybe.

Or is Lance Armstrong wasting his time riding 5-7 hours/day at
HR 110-120 in the off season?

Champions waste their time, I have seen it consistently. Is he?
Probably
not.

You have seen it consistently? And praytell where might that be? I'm
beginning to think you are trolling.

-DF

"MU" wrote in message
...
Muscle glycogen
is preserved by the body when possible, burning fats first.

Rarely. Systemic glycogen (liver, muscle etc) is a primary source of
fuel
for human motion. Fats are into the fuel equation (again, very
generally)
when these primary sources are (nearly) consumed.

And that is bull **** and I don't care what your credentials are. You
burn glycogen and fat ( obviously not the fat in our asses) at every
bloody moment it time. The ratio of burn is proportional to speed.
Sprinters burn solid glycogen while endurance folks like myself that run
for 20+ hours burn mostly fat. Endurance folks train their bodies via
the long run and speed work to enhance burning fat as opposed to
glycogen so you don't bonk. .

What you are referring to, or so it seems, is called bonking - when you
run out glycogen and the system tries to burn pure fat. Stand at mile
22-24 of a marathon and you'll witness big time as people are walking,
shuffling in pain

Here is fun read that I found in a two second query
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0361.htm which really covers Sear's and
how a 40 percent carb is inefficient for sports. Now Atkins is more
extreme and borders on the Looney bin.

Improve it? Maybe. Rely on it? Certainly.

No it's improve and not a maybe.

Or is Lance Armstrong wasting his time riding 5-7 hours/day at
HR 110-120 in the off season?

Champions waste their time, I have seen it consistently. Is he?
Probably
not.

You have seen it consistently? And praytell where might that be? I'm
beginning to think you are trolling.

-DF

On 2004-09-22, Ignoramus13667 wrote:
In article , Doug Freese wrote:

"Donovan Rebbechi" wrote in message
...
On 2004-09-20, Ignoramus23984
wrote:

Supposedly, higher protein diets are also better at sparing lean mass
than high carb diets.

High protein and high carb are not mutually exclusive. Endurance
athletes who
are attentive to the research eat quite a lot of protein as well as
carbs.

Amen Dovovan! It is, always has been, and unless we as humans morph to
something entirely different in a million years or so, is about balance.

Well, if you assume that we have not morphed into something entirely
different during the last million years (or even 100,000 years), then,
please, note that breads, pastas, and generally grains were not
available 100,000 years ago in any measurable quantity,
pre-agriculture.

How about sugar cane and honey ?

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

On 2004-09-22, Ignoramus13667 wrote:
In article , Doug Freese wrote:

"Donovan Rebbechi" wrote in message
...
On 2004-09-20, Ignoramus23984
wrote:

Supposedly, higher protein diets are also better at sparing lean mass
than high carb diets.

High protein and high carb are not mutually exclusive. Endurance
athletes who
are attentive to the research eat quite a lot of protein as well as
carbs.

Amen Dovovan! It is, always has been, and unless we as humans morph to
something entirely different in a million years or so, is about balance.

Well, if you assume that we have not morphed into something entirely
different during the last million years (or even 100,000 years), then,
please, note that breads, pastas, and generally grains were not
available 100,000 years ago in any measurable quantity,
pre-agriculture.

How about sugar cane and honey ?

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/