Low carb and endurance running -- results of my experiment

MU wrote in message ...
On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 21:18:15 GMT, Tony wrote:

Fat is burned in the absence of other energy dependent chemistries being
available.

What are "energy dependent chemistries" that's a mouthful.

Put simply, and very generally, the body uses either oxygen or an
assortment of other (in)organic chemicals to use for fuel. People call this
aerobic or anaerobic (better termed oxygen dependent and oxygen
independent).

Yes, so? Both fats and glycogen are always being consumed in some
proportion (as well as protien).


Muscle glycogen
is preserved by the body when possible, burning fats first.

Rarely. Systemic glycogen (liver, muscle etc) is a primary source of fuel
for human motion. Fats are into the fuel equation (again, very generally)
when these primary sources are (nearly) consumed.

That's not true. Fats are utilized first, and glycogen is utilized more as
exercise intensity goes up. This is commonly accepted.


Doing long
periods of training at low intensity will improve the fat burning system
over time.

Improve it? Maybe. Rely on it? Certainly.

Or is Lance Armstrong wasting his time riding 5-7 hours/day at
HR 110-120 in the off season?

Champions waste their time, I have seen it consistently. Is he? Probably
not.

There are reasons he has more glycogen left
than other racers at the end of the racing day when its needed.

Switching between oxygen dependency and independency is a very personal,
biomechanical issue. When is LA using non oxygen resources; when only O2
resources?

Your wording is an abuse of the English language worse even than mine LA
does many forms of training at many intensities. All aerobic training
utilizes oxygen, either with fat or glucose. Anaerobic training is done
exclusively on glycogen.

- Tony

Jane Lumley wrote in message ...
In article , Doug Freese
writes
Sprinters burn solid glycogen while endurance folks like myself that run
for 20+ hours burn mostly fat. Endurance folks train their bodies via
the long run and speed work to enhance burning fat as opposed to
glycogen so you don't bonk.

This is really interesting, and I never heard it put just like this
before.

Any clue about how far you go before you are burning mainly fat, or is
that, too, individual?

And (dumb question, doubtless) if endurance athletes burn fat, why do
they need carbs in order not to bonk in the UK, bonk means you have
lots of - er - energy...?

Endurance athletes burn both fat and glucose. Over the course of a long
event, most ultra runners will eat and metabolize a very substantial amount
of carbs in addtion to his glycogen reserves. This can be as high as
60gm/hour, taken as gels or in sports drinks. Some protien is taken as
well, and although fat stored in between the muscle fibres and regular body
fat are utilized, eating some small amount of mid-chain fatty acids has also
been shown to be helpful for long endurance events.

- Tony

Ignoramus13667 wrote:

I eat about 3 lbs of vegetables per day,

This might be the reason for the runner's trots issue you were having.

Phil M.

--
"Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make
them all yourself." *Martin Vanbee

Ignoramus13667 wrote:

I eat about 3 lbs of vegetables per day,

This might be the reason for the runner's trots issue you were having.

Phil M.

--
"Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make
them all yourself." *Martin Vanbee

Ignoramus13667 wrote:

In article , Phil M. wrote:
Ignoramus13667 wrote:

I eat about 3 lbs of vegetables per day,

This might be the reason for the runner's trots issue you were having.

I think that you are exactly right. On the day before half marathon, I
will eat a lot less vegs, for this reason. On the morning of the
marathon, I will have to get up at about 4am to drive to east Moline,
will probably eat just a bit of something that is easy on the
stomach. Have not decided what.

You probably know this now, but all this should have been worked out during
your long training runs. Besides the physiological benefits of long runs,
there are certain things that just won't be an issue until you've gone over
a certain distance.

Things like:
Shoes - causing blisters, too lose, too tight, laces coming undone
Chafing - groin, nipples, armpits
Clothing - too hot, too cold, too wet, causing chafing, too lose, too tight
Nutrition - calories (energy), carbs, protein, fats, gels, bars
Digestion - elimination, when to eat, when to drink before running, during
the race, after the race
Hyrdration - too much, too little, sodium, when to drink before the race,
during the race, after the race
Gear - HRM, watch, sunglasses, hat, gloves

That's just a short list of things that will be an issue.

Phil M.

--
"Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make
them all yourself." *Martin Vanbee

"MU" wrote in message
...

Rarely. Systemic glycogen (liver, muscle etc) is a primary source of
fuel
for human motion. Fats are into the fuel equation (again, very
generally)
when these primary sources are (nearly) consumed.

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 12:48:05 GMT, Doug Freese wrote:

And that is bull **** and I don't care what your credentials are.

Then there is no need for me to answer you, is there. But do me one favor.
next time you call my data "bull****", don't repeat my "bull****" yourself.
Which is what you did in your own words.

lol

Champions waste their time, I have seen it consistently. Is he?
Probably
not.

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 12:48:05 GMT, Doug Freese wrote:

You have seen it consistently?

Correct. Happens when you are around champions in over 30 sports for more
than a decade on a daily basis.

And praytell where might that be? I'm
beginning to think you are trolling.

I'm sure you have no clue who I am. You didn't Google my past posts, you
just shot your mouth off without doing your homework.

Now, run along, have fun and when you need accurate information that has
been sourced from leading sports scientists globally, I could give it to
you.

Problem is, I won't. I haven't either the time nor inclination to do so for
you.

"MU" wrote in message
...

Rarely. Systemic glycogen (liver, muscle etc) is a primary source of
fuel
for human motion. Fats are into the fuel equation (again, very
generally)
when these primary sources are (nearly) consumed.

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 12:48:05 GMT, Doug Freese wrote:

And that is bull **** and I don't care what your credentials are.

Then there is no need for me to answer you, is there. But do me one favor.
next time you call my data "bull****", don't repeat my "bull****" yourself.
Which is what you did in your own words.

lol

Champions waste their time, I have seen it consistently. Is he?
Probably
not.

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 12:48:05 GMT, Doug Freese wrote:

You have seen it consistently?

Correct. Happens when you are around champions in over 30 sports for more
than a decade on a daily basis.

And praytell where might that be? I'm
beginning to think you are trolling.

I'm sure you have no clue who I am. You didn't Google my past posts, you
just shot your mouth off without doing your homework.

Now, run along, have fun and when you need accurate information that has
been sourced from leading sports scientists globally, I could give it to
you.

Problem is, I won't. I haven't either the time nor inclination to do so for
you.

Ignoramus13667 wrote:

What should I take to be on the run? My thinking is, I should take my
ID, a note with all my details (phone numbers etc), a credit card,
$100 or so in cash.

Don't forget the TP.

Phil M.

--
"Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make
them all yourself." *Martin Vanbee

Phil M. wrote:
Ignoramus13667 wrote:


What should I take to be on the run? My thinking is, I should take my
ID, a note with all my details (phone numbers etc), a credit card,
$100 or so in cash.


Don't forget the TP.

Isn't that what the $100 cash is for?
I'm puzzled about why one would need $100 cash for a running race. OTOH,
maybe that's my problem

Dot

--
"So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste
away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog

Dot wrote:

Phil M. wrote:
Ignoramus13667 wrote:


What should I take to be on the run? My thinking is, I should take my
ID, a note with all my details (phone numbers etc), a credit card,
$100 or so in cash.


Don't forget the TP.

Isn't that what the $100 cash is for? I'm puzzled about why one
would need $100 cash for a running race. OTOH, maybe that's my problem


On my long runs I bring a $10 bill and TP (in the same plastic baggie).
So far I haven't needed either item. I guess for $100 you could pay for
cab fare from Moline to Chicago.

Phil M.

--
"Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make
them all yourself." *Martin Vanbee